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Playing the devil’s advocate your argument is even more strawman: purely because you can always make up an imaginary world where everybody is happy and unicorns

Playing the devil’s advocate your argument is even more strawman: purely because you can always make up an imaginary world where everybody is happy and unicorns are pooping candy.

darkteflon 5y ago
Sick burn bro. Might want to spend a couple minutes on Wikipedia next time though.
me_me_me 5y ago
> purely because you can always make up an imaginary world where everybody is happy and unicorns are pooping candy. That doesn't hold up, he argues that they should be treated like other citizens of the country they emigrated to (treated like a human). And not to be extra privileged based on some utopia. Just because a North Korean escapes life work camp sentence , it doesn't give South Korea right to put them in a South Korean work camp.
- rosndo 5y ago
  Hmm. Western countries will not take these kinds of immigrants at all. Qatar will take these immigrants, offer them significantly better pay and quality of life than what they had at home. Qatar is bad? Perhaps the heavy restrictions Western countries place on immigration are even worse?
  - me_me_me 5y ago
    > Western countries will not take these kinds of immigrants at all. That's outright not true, they will not take ALL of the immigrants. Thats how you create strawman justifying un-institutionalized slavery. Secondly, letting all immigrants come and treating them like objects/slaves is immoral. Also it would negatively impact the local economy, cheapening production overhead for businesses that will exploit slaves driving bottom-line for everyone else.
    - rosndo 5y ago
      > That's outright not true, they will not take ALL of the immigrants. No, it’s just impossible to get a regular EU or US work visa as an unskilled laborer from some Indian village. There are some seasonal worker visas available which are perhaps even more “abusive” than those offered by the gulf countries, but nothing long term. > Secondly, letting all immigrants come and treating them like objects/slaves is immoral Oof. You say this like it’s obvious. I say it’s not obvious at all, especially when “treating them like objects/slaves” is code for “vastly improving their lives, but not by enough”. Do you think it’s moral to leave these people to fend for themselves in the vastly worse conditions they exist in? The world isn’t black and white. As I see it, the gulf countries are doing vastly more to improve these peoples lives than Western countries. Can you refute that? I’m genuinely interested in being proven wrong. > Also it would negatively impact the local economy, cheapening production overhead for businesses that will exploit slaves driving bottom-line for everyone else This is a positive effect, consumers will have access to cheaper goods.
      - me_me_me 5y ago
        > Do you think it’s moral to leave these people to fend for themselves in the vastly worse conditions they exist in? This is moral relativism and as you clearly presenting it leads to slippery slope arguments. Like justifying slavery and exploitation. South was doing the same claiming that their slaves have better and they educate the savages through work and lords word. > As I see it, the gulf countries are doing vastly more to improve these peoples lives than Western countries. HAHAHA, ok this is a troll. Tell that to Yemen, Saudis are helping them. They are just not realizing it.
        rosndo 5y ago
        > South was doing the same claiming that their slaves have better and they educate the savages through work and lords word. But the South took away their freedom, it’s really incomparable with what is going on in UAE and Qatar. Those migrant workers can leave if they want, they aren’t slaves. >HAHAHA, ok this is a troll. >Tell that to Yemen, Saudis are helping them. They are just not realizing it. I think you’re the one trolling here. What does Yemen have to do with this conversation? I believe that the visa and labour policies of some gulf countries are good, I do not believe that these countries aren’t run by downright evil regimes.

Playing the devil’s advocate your argument is even more strawman: purely because you can always make up an imaginary world where everybody is happy and unicorns are pooping candy.

darkteflon 5y ago

Sick burn bro. Might want to spend a couple minutes on Wikipedia next time though.

me_me_me 5y ago

> purely because you can always make up an imaginary world where everybody is happy and unicorns are pooping candy. That doesn't hold up, he argues that they should be treated like other citizens of the country they emigrated to (treated like a human). And not to be extra privileged based on some utopia. Just because a North Korean escapes life work camp sentence , it doesn't give South Korea right to put them in a South Korean work camp.

rosndo 5y ago
Hmm. Western countries will not take these kinds of immigrants at all. Qatar will take these immigrants, offer them significantly better pay and quality of life than what they had at home. Qatar is bad? Perhaps the heavy restrictions Western countries place on immigration are even worse?
- me_me_me 5y ago
  > Western countries will not take these kinds of immigrants at all. That's outright not true, they will not take ALL of the immigrants. Thats how you create strawman justifying un-institutionalized slavery. Secondly, letting all immigrants come and treating them like objects/slaves is immoral. Also it would negatively impact the local economy, cheapening production overhead for businesses that will exploit slaves driving bottom-line for everyone else.
  - rosndo 5y ago
    > That's outright not true, they will not take ALL of the immigrants. No, it’s just impossible to get a regular EU or US work visa as an unskilled laborer from some Indian village. There are some seasonal worker visas available which are perhaps even more “abusive” than those offered by the gulf countries, but nothing long term. > Secondly, letting all immigrants come and treating them like objects/slaves is immoral Oof. You say this like it’s obvious. I say it’s not obvious at all, especially when “treating them like objects/slaves” is code for “vastly improving their lives, but not by enough”. Do you think it’s moral to leave these people to fend for themselves in the vastly worse conditions they exist in? The world isn’t black and white. As I see it, the gulf countries are doing vastly more to improve these peoples lives than Western countries. Can you refute that? I’m genuinely interested in being proven wrong. > Also it would negatively impact the local economy, cheapening production overhead for businesses that will exploit slaves driving bottom-line for everyone else This is a positive effect, consumers will have access to cheaper goods.
    - me_me_me 5y ago
      > Do you think it’s moral to leave these people to fend for themselves in the vastly worse conditions they exist in? This is moral relativism and as you clearly presenting it leads to slippery slope arguments. Like justifying slavery and exploitation. South was doing the same claiming that their slaves have better and they educate the savages through work and lords word. > As I see it, the gulf countries are doing vastly more to improve these peoples lives than Western countries. HAHAHA, ok this is a troll. Tell that to Yemen, Saudis are helping them. They are just not realizing it.
      - rosndo 5y ago
        > South was doing the same claiming that their slaves have better and they educate the savages through work and lords word. But the South took away their freedom, it’s really incomparable with what is going on in UAE and Qatar. Those migrant workers can leave if they want, they aren’t slaves. >HAHAHA, ok this is a troll. >Tell that to Yemen, Saudis are helping them. They are just not realizing it. I think you’re the one trolling here. What does Yemen have to do with this conversation? I believe that the visa and labour policies of some gulf countries are good, I do not believe that these countries aren’t run by downright evil regimes.