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There's some sort of battle happening between the devs of Graphene and Calyx as we speak: https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1511593168667611139?s=20&t=XJeC

There's some sort of battle happening between the devs of Graphene and Calyx as we speak: https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1511593168667611139?s=20&t=XJeC7Ry9XgapT9yBSnQ4zw https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1511593168667611139?s=...

Alterlife 5y ago
This has been going on for atleast a year. There's a long video from Techlore which presents the CalyxOS side of the picture and places the blame with GrapheneOS leadership: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx7CZ-2Bajg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx7CZ-2Bajg .
- flexagoon 5y ago
  I don't like the video, it shows Daniel Micay as a toxic sociopathic man, while in reality he is nothing like that
  - sendfoods 5y ago
    Maybe many people get this impression because he (rightfully! I want to be very clear here) defended his accomplishments against the attacks from his Copperhead OS business partner. Without context it's hard to understand
  - strcat 5y ago
    It's a video pushing a whole bunch of clearly fabricated stories and libel about me. The leader of the Calyx Institute and multiple project members have also participated in this abusive behavior. They've tried to pretend as if their highly abusive behavior isn't real and is simply imagined. Techlore's video shows a series of doctored screenshots with him lying through his teeth about the history, context and content of the screenshots. He very openly gets pleasure out of directing his toxic community to harass me and teaching them to push these talking points about me being schizophrenic, crazy and delusional. Nicolas Merrill and other Calyx Institute employees have extensive involvement in this. Nick has repeatedly tried to claim that I'm crazy and delusional. Today, Nick openly tolerated and showed his tacit support for ongoing raids on our rooms. Multiple people currently involved in massive raids on our room alternating between spamming extreme gore and libel were openly bragging about it in the Calyx room. He was there and perfectly happy to allow it. He has openly engaged with people repeatedly insulting me, harassing me and saying that I should kill myself. It's not the GrapheneOS community engaging in a misinformation / libel campaign across platforms and this highly toxic / abusive behavior. https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1511593168667611139 https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1511593168667611139 I can link a whole bunch of other Twitter threads and archives about this but I currently need to deal with these ongoing raids on our room by CalyxOS.
    - panick21_ 5y ago
      After reading this thread I don't really want to get involved in either community. But I still hope the best for the software projects and wish the best for everybody that does actual development, I hope this situation can get better over time.
- strcat 5y ago
  It's a video pushing a whole bunch of clearly fabricated stories and libel about me. The leader of the Calyx Institute and multiple project members have also participated in this abusive behavior. They've tried to pretend as if their highly abusive behavior isn't real and is simply imagined. Techlore's video shows a series of doctored screenshots with him lying through his teeth about the history, context and content of the screenshots. He very openly gets pleasure out of directing his toxic community to harass me and teaching them to push these talking points about me being schizophrenic, crazy and delusional. You're spreading highly abusive and libellous content. The person claiming we're toxic is the one who is an abusive sociopath engaging in character assassination and running an abuse campaign against someone because they take great pleasure in abusing someone on the autism spectrum who gets extremely hurt by their behavior and this harassment campaign. Nicolas Merrill and other Calyx Institute employees have extensive involvement in this. Nick has repeatedly tried to claim that I'm crazy and delusional. Today, Nick openly tolerated and showed his tacit support for ongoing raids on our rooms. Multiple people currently involved in massive raids on our room alternating between spamming extreme gore and libel were openly bragging about it in the Calyx room. He was there and perfectly happy to allow it. He has openly engaged with people repeatedly insulting me, harassing me and saying that I should kill myself. It's not the GrapheneOS community engaging in a misinformation / libel campaign across platforms and this highly toxic / abusive behavior. https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1511593168667611139 https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1511593168667611139 I can link a whole bunch of other Twitter threads and archives about this but I currently need to deal with these ongoing raids on our room by CalyxOS.
- aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
  Techlore, voice of technical authority. Jeez, HN, get your shit together.
cdesai 5y ago
Sigh, always. The users have been banned, it's just that no mods were around at that time. We strictly don't allow any GrapheneOS talk at all on our channels due to this drama. I don't know what else to do. See: https://view.matrix.org/room/!aPqEsAdWuysydZNCic:matrix.org/?anchor=$PQyfXQh-VXhJWgOLaWlkwoldQLE5Nekaj1gR4xkOqE0&offset=-120 https://view.matrix.org/room/!aPqEsAdWuysydZNCic:matrix.org/... Not the thing one wants to wake up to, but what can you do. Disclosure: CalyxOS lead developer.
- bigwavedave 5y ago
  I just wanted to take a sec and say I've been using Calyx for eight or nine months now- sure, there was some pain that came in the first month from adjusting to a new phone OS (there always will be when being a Samsung lifer trying something new to me), but overall I've been very pleased with it. Thanks for all the work you and the team have put into it :).
- strcat 5y ago
  You're claiming no mods were around when Nicolas Merrill was right there in the middle of the conversation? It's blatantly not true. Screenshot is here for everyone to see: https://twitter.com/DanielMicay/status/1511639628637511681 https://twitter.com/DanielMicay/status/1511639628637511681 You shouldn't lie about things that are so easily disproven. The main thing you disallow in your rooms are people defending GrapheneOS against your misinformation and libel. Those are the people who get quickly banned. You're frequently the ones engaging and spearheading this. You only ban people when it's not going your way and then you clean things up after the fact just as you're doing here. The fact remains that you have NOT banned the people openly involved in highly abusive behavior, and you're directly part of it yourselves too. Nick is frequently one of the people directly involved in bullying and libel targeting me along with pushing blatant misinformation about GrapheneOS. The incredibly toxic behavior directed towards us comes from the top. Nick, you and Techlore have orchestrated this. You're directly responsible for the highly abusive behavior directed towards me and you're going to be held accountable for it whether you like it or not. You act as if you're trying to stop it but you're more focused on removing the messages of people countering vicious attacks on us than you are on stopping the abuse you've regularly engaged it and encouraged. It did not become what it is now without the direct support of the Calyx organization and CalyxOS. Everyone tied to the organization is tainted by it and it will follow them. I have plenty more screenshots to post on Twitter if you folks would like showing extremely abusive behavior from Nick. I can show both you and him supporting the abusive behavior and raids towards us. Most of these attacks come directly from the top and are heavily based on the libel and misinformation from you, Nick and Henry. The legacy of your project will be your abusive behavior. It's how you're going to be remembered. It's not as if you're doing anything beyond marketing and misleading users beyond that. Eventually you folks are going to pay the cost of your nasty character assassination campaign and misinformation war both to promote your project and to harm GrapheneOS. You don't even do remotely the same kind of work. From the start, all you've done is try to take advantage of an unfortunate takeover attempt on our project. The attempt at undermining us was happening even in your early days when we were helping you and telling people about your project. This is never going to go away and your continued escalation over the past year and especially the past few months is not going to go unanswered. You think you can get away with it because all we've done is talk about what's happening. It's not going to remain that way. Any project, conference or organization where you're involved and who you work with inherits all of this baggage going forward until you make any real attempt at reversing this and repairing the harm that has been caused. It will follow you around for the rest of your life. You will always be the people who engaged in extremely abusive behavior towards someone which a dozen people in your room who you have not banned have openly said is aimed at trying to drive me to kill myself. You were openly against even banning Kiwi Farms. There is nothing more that needs to be said.
dtx1 5y ago
To be fair, the lead dev of graphene os has been crying wolf about stuff like this for ages. For example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx7CZ-2Bajg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx7CZ-2Bajg Now, i really like Graphene OS. I consider my Pixel 3a with Graphene OS one of my, if not my most secure device. And the work they do is great. But man, Daniel Mackay would be well advised to reorganize how he interacts with his community and perhaps take some mental health help, i don't think he's been in good place mentally for quite some time :(
- strcat 5y ago
  > To be fair, the lead dev of graphene os has been crying wolf about stuff like this for ages. We aren't crying wolf. The abusive behavior has been ongoing since 2018. It wasn't happening in any significant way from 2014 through 2018. It started with the events which led to the creation of CalyxOS in 2018. You're linking to a highly dishonest and abusive video where one of the most prominent abusers tied to CalyxOS spends an hour lying through their teeth and engaging in these highly abusive personal attacks. It's a character assassination campaign which you're participating in yourself > Now, i really like Graphene OS. I consider my Pixel 3a with Graphene OS one of my, if not my most secure device. And the work they do is great. But man, Daniel Mackay would be well advised to reorganize how he interacts with his community and perhaps take some mental health help, i don't think he's been in good place mentally for quite some time :( You're participating in a highly abusive harassment and bullying campaign targeting me. You're spreading fabricated claims and libel about me and are participating in the attempt by Nicolas Merrill (Calyx leader), Techlore and cdesai (CalyxOS lead developer) to portray the abusive behavior which you are yourself demonstration as the delusions of someone mentally ill and crazy. > I consider my Pixel 3a with Graphene OS one of my, if not my most secure device A common tactic from the CalyxOS and Techlore folks engaging in this abusive behavior is to pretend to use GrapheneOS and to do exactly what you're doing. Whether or not you use GrapheneOS does not justify this abusive behavior.
  - dtx1 5y ago
    > You're participating in a highly abusive harassment and bullying campaign targeting me. You're spreading fabricated claims and libel about me and are participating in the attempt by Nicolas Merrill (Calyx leader), Techlore and cdesai (CalyxOS lead developer) to portray the abusive behavior which you are yourself demonstration as the delusions of someone mentally ill and crazy. I'm participating in nothing, I barely care about this issue. But these kinds of comments and reactions are guaranteed to cause another storm of abusive behavior against you. I know you think you are 100% right and justified but they are just using your predictable responses to trigger you again and again for their amusement. Enjoy the vicious cycle bro, if you want to escape it, change your reactions, if you don't want to escape it, become their eternal lol cow. I'll leave you with the words of Capatain Picard: "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4A-Ml8YHyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4A-Ml8YHyM
joemazerino 5y ago
A random joining a channel and exclaiming victory over a raid does not make Nick or CalyxOS guilty of anything. This looks more like subterfuge from the GrapheneOS side to place blame on Calyx. CalyxOS is a victim of bullying here. I have seen both sides discuss and I have never seen Nick or cdesai tell the community to attack GrapheneOS. Look at the new HN accounts and how strcat (Daniel Micay) responds in this thread. It is unprofessional at best, malevolent at worse.
- strcat 5y ago
  Nick has repeatedly got involved in spreading libel and misinformation about GrapheneOS in the past few days and has encouraged the people raiding our rooms. At most he has asked them not to do this in their rooms, while making it clear that he does not disagree with the harassment and bullying. There is no subterfuge going on here and CalyxOS community members repeatedly engaging in libel and bullying targeting us while trying to present themselves as the victims isn't going to work. It's you folks being highly unprofessional and downright abusive. Moderators across multiple platforms have noticed the coordinated misinformation campaigns from CalyxOS and are beginning to crack down on it. It's not working out for you and you're destroying the reputation of your project and community in your continued attempts to harm us in any way possible.

Alterlife 5y ago

This has been going on for atleast a year. There's a long video from Techlore which presents the CalyxOS side of the picture and places the blame with GrapheneOS leadership: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx7CZ-2Bajg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx7CZ-2Bajg .

flexagoon 5y ago
I don't like the video, it shows Daniel Micay as a toxic sociopathic man, while in reality he is nothing like that
- sendfoods 5y ago
  Maybe many people get this impression because he (rightfully! I want to be very clear here) defended his accomplishments against the attacks from his Copperhead OS business partner. Without context it's hard to understand
- strcat 5y ago
  It's a video pushing a whole bunch of clearly fabricated stories and libel about me. The leader of the Calyx Institute and multiple project members have also participated in this abusive behavior. They've tried to pretend as if their highly abusive behavior isn't real and is simply imagined. Techlore's video shows a series of doctored screenshots with him lying through his teeth about the history, context and content of the screenshots. He very openly gets pleasure out of directing his toxic community to harass me and teaching them to push these talking points about me being schizophrenic, crazy and delusional. Nicolas Merrill and other Calyx Institute employees have extensive involvement in this. Nick has repeatedly tried to claim that I'm crazy and delusional. Today, Nick openly tolerated and showed his tacit support for ongoing raids on our rooms. Multiple people currently involved in massive raids on our room alternating between spamming extreme gore and libel were openly bragging about it in the Calyx room. He was there and perfectly happy to allow it. He has openly engaged with people repeatedly insulting me, harassing me and saying that I should kill myself. It's not the GrapheneOS community engaging in a misinformation / libel campaign across platforms and this highly toxic / abusive behavior. https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1511593168667611139 https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1511593168667611139 I can link a whole bunch of other Twitter threads and archives about this but I currently need to deal with these ongoing raids on our room by CalyxOS.
  - panick21_ 5y ago
    After reading this thread I don't really want to get involved in either community. But I still hope the best for the software projects and wish the best for everybody that does actual development, I hope this situation can get better over time.
strcat 5y ago
It's a video pushing a whole bunch of clearly fabricated stories and libel about me. The leader of the Calyx Institute and multiple project members have also participated in this abusive behavior. They've tried to pretend as if their highly abusive behavior isn't real and is simply imagined. Techlore's video shows a series of doctored screenshots with him lying through his teeth about the history, context and content of the screenshots. He very openly gets pleasure out of directing his toxic community to harass me and teaching them to push these talking points about me being schizophrenic, crazy and delusional. You're spreading highly abusive and libellous content. The person claiming we're toxic is the one who is an abusive sociopath engaging in character assassination and running an abuse campaign against someone because they take great pleasure in abusing someone on the autism spectrum who gets extremely hurt by their behavior and this harassment campaign. Nicolas Merrill and other Calyx Institute employees have extensive involvement in this. Nick has repeatedly tried to claim that I'm crazy and delusional. Today, Nick openly tolerated and showed his tacit support for ongoing raids on our rooms. Multiple people currently involved in massive raids on our room alternating between spamming extreme gore and libel were openly bragging about it in the Calyx room. He was there and perfectly happy to allow it. He has openly engaged with people repeatedly insulting me, harassing me and saying that I should kill myself. It's not the GrapheneOS community engaging in a misinformation / libel campaign across platforms and this highly toxic / abusive behavior. https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1511593168667611139 https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1511593168667611139 I can link a whole bunch of other Twitter threads and archives about this but I currently need to deal with these ongoing raids on our room by CalyxOS.
aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
Techlore, voice of technical authority. Jeez, HN, get your shit together.

cdesai 5y ago

Sigh, always. The users have been banned, it's just that no mods were around at that time. We strictly don't allow any GrapheneOS talk at all on our channels due to this drama. I don't know what else to do. See: https://view.matrix.org/room/!aPqEsAdWuysydZNCic:matrix.org/?anchor=$PQyfXQh-VXhJWgOLaWlkwoldQLE5Nekaj1gR4xkOqE0&offset=-120 https://view.matrix.org/room/!aPqEsAdWuysydZNCic:matrix.org/... Not the thing one wants to wake up to, but what can you do. Disclosure: CalyxOS lead developer.

bigwavedave 5y ago
I just wanted to take a sec and say I've been using Calyx for eight or nine months now- sure, there was some pain that came in the first month from adjusting to a new phone OS (there always will be when being a Samsung lifer trying something new to me), but overall I've been very pleased with it. Thanks for all the work you and the team have put into it :).
strcat 5y ago
You're claiming no mods were around when Nicolas Merrill was right there in the middle of the conversation? It's blatantly not true. Screenshot is here for everyone to see: https://twitter.com/DanielMicay/status/1511639628637511681 https://twitter.com/DanielMicay/status/1511639628637511681 You shouldn't lie about things that are so easily disproven. The main thing you disallow in your rooms are people defending GrapheneOS against your misinformation and libel. Those are the people who get quickly banned. You're frequently the ones engaging and spearheading this. You only ban people when it's not going your way and then you clean things up after the fact just as you're doing here. The fact remains that you have NOT banned the people openly involved in highly abusive behavior, and you're directly part of it yourselves too. Nick is frequently one of the people directly involved in bullying and libel targeting me along with pushing blatant misinformation about GrapheneOS. The incredibly toxic behavior directed towards us comes from the top. Nick, you and Techlore have orchestrated this. You're directly responsible for the highly abusive behavior directed towards me and you're going to be held accountable for it whether you like it or not. You act as if you're trying to stop it but you're more focused on removing the messages of people countering vicious attacks on us than you are on stopping the abuse you've regularly engaged it and encouraged. It did not become what it is now without the direct support of the Calyx organization and CalyxOS. Everyone tied to the organization is tainted by it and it will follow them. I have plenty more screenshots to post on Twitter if you folks would like showing extremely abusive behavior from Nick. I can show both you and him supporting the abusive behavior and raids towards us. Most of these attacks come directly from the top and are heavily based on the libel and misinformation from you, Nick and Henry. The legacy of your project will be your abusive behavior. It's how you're going to be remembered. It's not as if you're doing anything beyond marketing and misleading users beyond that. Eventually you folks are going to pay the cost of your nasty character assassination campaign and misinformation war both to promote your project and to harm GrapheneOS. You don't even do remotely the same kind of work. From the start, all you've done is try to take advantage of an unfortunate takeover attempt on our project. The attempt at undermining us was happening even in your early days when we were helping you and telling people about your project. This is never going to go away and your continued escalation over the past year and especially the past few months is not going to go unanswered. You think you can get away with it because all we've done is talk about what's happening. It's not going to remain that way. Any project, conference or organization where you're involved and who you work with inherits all of this baggage going forward until you make any real attempt at reversing this and repairing the harm that has been caused. It will follow you around for the rest of your life. You will always be the people who engaged in extremely abusive behavior towards someone which a dozen people in your room who you have not banned have openly said is aimed at trying to drive me to kill myself. You were openly against even banning Kiwi Farms. There is nothing more that needs to be said.

dtx1 5y ago

To be fair, the lead dev of graphene os has been crying wolf about stuff like this for ages. For example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx7CZ-2Bajg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx7CZ-2Bajg Now, i really like Graphene OS. I consider my Pixel 3a with Graphene OS one of my, if not my most secure device. And the work they do is great. But man, Daniel Mackay would be well advised to reorganize how he interacts with his community and perhaps take some mental health help, i don't think he's been in good place mentally for quite some time :(

strcat 5y ago
> To be fair, the lead dev of graphene os has been crying wolf about stuff like this for ages. We aren't crying wolf. The abusive behavior has been ongoing since 2018. It wasn't happening in any significant way from 2014 through 2018. It started with the events which led to the creation of CalyxOS in 2018. You're linking to a highly dishonest and abusive video where one of the most prominent abusers tied to CalyxOS spends an hour lying through their teeth and engaging in these highly abusive personal attacks. It's a character assassination campaign which you're participating in yourself > Now, i really like Graphene OS. I consider my Pixel 3a with Graphene OS one of my, if not my most secure device. And the work they do is great. But man, Daniel Mackay would be well advised to reorganize how he interacts with his community and perhaps take some mental health help, i don't think he's been in good place mentally for quite some time :( You're participating in a highly abusive harassment and bullying campaign targeting me. You're spreading fabricated claims and libel about me and are participating in the attempt by Nicolas Merrill (Calyx leader), Techlore and cdesai (CalyxOS lead developer) to portray the abusive behavior which you are yourself demonstration as the delusions of someone mentally ill and crazy. > I consider my Pixel 3a with Graphene OS one of my, if not my most secure device A common tactic from the CalyxOS and Techlore folks engaging in this abusive behavior is to pretend to use GrapheneOS and to do exactly what you're doing. Whether or not you use GrapheneOS does not justify this abusive behavior.
- dtx1 5y ago
  > You're participating in a highly abusive harassment and bullying campaign targeting me. You're spreading fabricated claims and libel about me and are participating in the attempt by Nicolas Merrill (Calyx leader), Techlore and cdesai (CalyxOS lead developer) to portray the abusive behavior which you are yourself demonstration as the delusions of someone mentally ill and crazy. I'm participating in nothing, I barely care about this issue. But these kinds of comments and reactions are guaranteed to cause another storm of abusive behavior against you. I know you think you are 100% right and justified but they are just using your predictable responses to trigger you again and again for their amusement. Enjoy the vicious cycle bro, if you want to escape it, change your reactions, if you don't want to escape it, become their eternal lol cow. I'll leave you with the words of Capatain Picard: "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4A-Ml8YHyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4A-Ml8YHyM

joemazerino 5y ago

A random joining a channel and exclaiming victory over a raid does not make Nick or CalyxOS guilty of anything. This looks more like subterfuge from the GrapheneOS side to place blame on Calyx. CalyxOS is a victim of bullying here. I have seen both sides discuss and I have never seen Nick or cdesai tell the community to attack GrapheneOS. Look at the new HN accounts and how strcat (Daniel Micay) responds in this thread. It is unprofessional at best, malevolent at worse.

strcat 5y ago
Nick has repeatedly got involved in spreading libel and misinformation about GrapheneOS in the past few days and has encouraged the people raiding our rooms. At most he has asked them not to do this in their rooms, while making it clear that he does not disagree with the harassment and bullying. There is no subterfuge going on here and CalyxOS community members repeatedly engaging in libel and bullying targeting us while trying to present themselves as the victims isn't going to work. It's you folks being highly unprofessional and downright abusive. Moderators across multiple platforms have noticed the coordinated misinformation campaigns from CalyxOS and are beginning to crack down on it. It's not working out for you and you're destroying the reputation of your project and community in your continued attempts to harm us in any way possible.