3 ms·

I fund gwern unreadable, despite their focus on typography. Maybe it's just my b rain not working very well with serif fonts.

WA 5y ago
It's not just you. I avoid this website, too. I don't want to read a book in my browser. There's too much going on visually, and all in the same color. Three types of links, footnotes, icons, artistic first letters, ... for me, it's way too much.
chandureddyvari 5y ago
Same here. I switch to Firefox Readermode to read it. May be my brain is trained to comprehend better if the reading experience is consistent.
seanhunter 5y ago
Not just you and I don't think the font is the problem in and of itself. The main thing for me is the design is extremely busy, distracting and just plain obtrusive in many ways. For example all the inderlining, annotations, popups with strange CDE-esque headings, the weird "broken image"-style picture they put next to some links for some reason. It constantly calls attention to itself rather than the writing being the primary focus and the design serving to highlight that. It's quite startling how much better the site is when you turn on "reader" mode in the browser.
- creata 5y ago
  Does CDE stand for "Common Desktop Environment"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Desktop_Environment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Desktop_Environment But yes, those popup headings are way too chunky.
exodust 5y ago
> serif fonts Can't understand why websites choose serif fonts. I find long passages of text a chore to read when the font is serif. They're less readable than sans-serif, as the little feet on every letter adds up to unnecessary visual clutter. And when rendered as white text on a black page, with compacted line spacing, the contrasty serif fonts won't be inviting to the reader.
- iamacyborg 5y ago
  Meanwhile, I purposefully change the font of ebooks I read on my kindle to serif as I find it easier to read.
- leephillips 5y ago
  “Can't understand why websites choose serif fonts. I find long passages of text a chore to read when the font is serif.” Reading books must be a problem, as most of those are set in serif type. The traditional view is that long passages are easier to read in serif fonts, but tastes vary, and there’s not a lot of good evidence for it. Personally, I find it to be true. Are you reading on a blurry (dpi < 200) screen? That could be the problem.
  - exodust 5y ago
    Reading books isn't a problem because the serif fonts are tiny black printed letters on paper. Serif helps the small letters stand out. A computer screen doesn't share the same type size issues. When combined with high contrast, I favor the sans and am surprised anyone would prefer serif if given choice. A monitor with less than 200 ppi isn't blurry! If interested, here's the exact moment recently I thought "oh how I dislike serif fonts".... I think I bailed half way through... https://blog.thenewoil.org/why-to-care-about-privacy-after-years-of-sharing-data https://blog.thenewoil.org/why-to-care-about-privacy-after-y...
    - leephillips 5y ago
      At typical laptop distance, 200 dpi is around where you can start to see individual dots. This varies by individual of course, but I think that’s more-or-less right. That’s blurry. It’s also where font hinting starts to matter. Your example seems perfectly fine to me, and is easy and pleasant to read. I’m reading on a Surface Pro 3 that came out in 2014, that I bought on Ebay for $200 and put Linux on. It has a non-blurry screen, as do all phones these days. Non-blurry screens are essential for reading text, and no longer confined to the wealthy. Hallelujah!
- galaxyLogic 5y ago

WA 5y ago

It's not just you. I avoid this website, too. I don't want to read a book in my browser. There's too much going on visually, and all in the same color. Three types of links, footnotes, icons, artistic first letters, ... for me, it's way too much.

chandureddyvari 5y ago

Same here. I switch to Firefox Readermode to read it. May be my brain is trained to comprehend better if the reading experience is consistent.

seanhunter 5y ago

Not just you and I don't think the font is the problem in and of itself. The main thing for me is the design is extremely busy, distracting and just plain obtrusive in many ways. For example all the inderlining, annotations, popups with strange CDE-esque headings, the weird "broken image"-style picture they put next to some links for some reason. It constantly calls attention to itself rather than the writing being the primary focus and the design serving to highlight that. It's quite startling how much better the site is when you turn on "reader" mode in the browser.

creata 5y ago
Does CDE stand for "Common Desktop Environment"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Desktop_Environment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Desktop_Environment But yes, those popup headings are way too chunky.

exodust 5y ago

> serif fonts Can't understand why websites choose serif fonts. I find long passages of text a chore to read when the font is serif. They're less readable than sans-serif, as the little feet on every letter adds up to unnecessary visual clutter. And when rendered as white text on a black page, with compacted line spacing, the contrasty serif fonts won't be inviting to the reader.

iamacyborg 5y ago
Meanwhile, I purposefully change the font of ebooks I read on my kindle to serif as I find it easier to read.
leephillips 5y ago
“Can't understand why websites choose serif fonts. I find long passages of text a chore to read when the font is serif.” Reading books must be a problem, as most of those are set in serif type. The traditional view is that long passages are easier to read in serif fonts, but tastes vary, and there’s not a lot of good evidence for it. Personally, I find it to be true. Are you reading on a blurry (dpi < 200) screen? That could be the problem.
- exodust 5y ago
  Reading books isn't a problem because the serif fonts are tiny black printed letters on paper. Serif helps the small letters stand out. A computer screen doesn't share the same type size issues. When combined with high contrast, I favor the sans and am surprised anyone would prefer serif if given choice. A monitor with less than 200 ppi isn't blurry! If interested, here's the exact moment recently I thought "oh how I dislike serif fonts".... I think I bailed half way through... https://blog.thenewoil.org/why-to-care-about-privacy-after-years-of-sharing-data https://blog.thenewoil.org/why-to-care-about-privacy-after-y...
  - leephillips 5y ago
    At typical laptop distance, 200 dpi is around where you can start to see individual dots. This varies by individual of course, but I think that’s more-or-less right. That’s blurry. It’s also where font hinting starts to matter. Your example seems perfectly fine to me, and is easy and pleasant to read. I’m reading on a Surface Pro 3 that came out in 2014, that I bought on Ebay for $200 and put Linux on. It has a non-blurry screen, as do all phones these days. Non-blurry screens are essential for reading text, and no longer confined to the wealthy. Hallelujah!
galaxyLogic 5y ago