4 ms·

I'll give you my votes then: - no braces where avoidable, no semicolons where avoidable - release early a free, open source reference development environment

I'll give you my votes then: - no braces where avoidable, no semicolons where avoidable - release early a free, open source reference development environment that really helps in developing with Dart. The biggest pain with Javascript, imho, is in the lack of development tools really thought out for it, and not just an adaptation of Java/C/whatever other editors - if you develop said IDE as a web-IDE, even better (why not writte in dart itself?) - give as many inobtrusive visual cues as possible to easily see tab alignment, syntax coloring, etc. - integrate unit testing facilities in the IDE

clownz0r 15y ago
You raise a good point. I'd like to see more about testing Dart.
- munificent 15y ago
  We have a rudimentary unit test framework [1] that we've been using for the samples, though we're still playing with different styles. Personally, I'm fond of the Jasmine-inspired stuff I tried to slap together here [2]. This is of course different from the testing infrastructure for the language itself, which is its own thing. [1] https://code.google.com/p/dart/source/browse/branches/bleeding_edge/dart/#dart%2Fclient%2Ftesting%2Funittest [2] https://code.google.com/p/dart/source/browse/branches/bleeding_edge/dart/client/tests/client/view/ViewTests.dart
  - clownz0r 15y ago
    Thanks! I will take a look at these.
munificent 15y ago
I like everything you propose here. Dart is earlier in development than I think most people realize, and I really hope we can get to something like what you're listing. Definitely self-hosting and a self-hosted IDE would be on my love-to-have list. As a testing nerd, integrating testing would definitely be on it too.
- danmaz74 15y ago
  A good development environment is something where you could really differentiate yourselves, and I guess you could very easily integrate introspection and analysis features into chrome to help with it. I've been thinking for years that if I ever were to develop a new language, I would start from developer usability first - I think there is much more to innovate there than in the core language features, nowadays. Developer usability is tightly coupled with the development tools the developer can use, not just with abstract language features. And especially for web development, you can't think only about top of class developers. As I'm at it, I'll write here my dream feature of any language and IDE - not knowing if it is really feasible, but it doesn't look really impossible to me. Use case: - You run your unit tests - An assertion fails/there is an error - A debugger brings you to where the problem is - You can step back from where you are, make changes on the fly to your code and the tests, and step forward to the assertion/error again. I guess that with a VM, and excluding some operations that depend from external status and which are destructive, this could be possible, and it could allow an incredible speedup in development...
  - drothlis 15y ago
    Certainly feasible: Smalltalk debuggers do this. And Smalltalkers (allegedly) use a workflow just like you describe.
    - danmaz74 15y ago
      I read about this, and even tried downloading squeak once, but didn't find it very compelling. I admit that I might not have given it the time it needed, though...
      - drothlis 15y ago
        A few weeks ago I whipped up this 3-minute video showcasing a Smalltalk class browser, method finder, and debugger: http://vimeo.com/27850933 http://vimeo.com/27850933
    - cwp 15y ago

clownz0r 15y ago

You raise a good point. I'd like to see more about testing Dart.

munificent 15y ago
We have a rudimentary unit test framework [1] that we've been using for the samples, though we're still playing with different styles. Personally, I'm fond of the Jasmine-inspired stuff I tried to slap together here [2]. This is of course different from the testing infrastructure for the language itself, which is its own thing. [1] https://code.google.com/p/dart/source/browse/branches/bleeding_edge/dart/#dart%2Fclient%2Ftesting%2Funittest [2] https://code.google.com/p/dart/source/browse/branches/bleeding_edge/dart/client/tests/client/view/ViewTests.dart
- clownz0r 15y ago
  Thanks! I will take a look at these.

munificent 15y ago

I like everything you propose here. Dart is earlier in development than I think most people realize, and I really hope we can get to something like what you're listing. Definitely self-hosting and a self-hosted IDE would be on my love-to-have list. As a testing nerd, integrating testing would definitely be on it too.

danmaz74 15y ago
A good development environment is something where you could really differentiate yourselves, and I guess you could very easily integrate introspection and analysis features into chrome to help with it. I've been thinking for years that if I ever were to develop a new language, I would start from developer usability first - I think there is much more to innovate there than in the core language features, nowadays. Developer usability is tightly coupled with the development tools the developer can use, not just with abstract language features. And especially for web development, you can't think only about top of class developers. As I'm at it, I'll write here my dream feature of any language and IDE - not knowing if it is really feasible, but it doesn't look really impossible to me. Use case: - You run your unit tests - An assertion fails/there is an error - A debugger brings you to where the problem is - You can step back from where you are, make changes on the fly to your code and the tests, and step forward to the assertion/error again. I guess that with a VM, and excluding some operations that depend from external status and which are destructive, this could be possible, and it could allow an incredible speedup in development...
- drothlis 15y ago
  Certainly feasible: Smalltalk debuggers do this. And Smalltalkers (allegedly) use a workflow just like you describe.
  - danmaz74 15y ago
    I read about this, and even tried downloading squeak once, but didn't find it very compelling. I admit that I might not have given it the time it needed, though...
    - drothlis 15y ago
      A few weeks ago I whipped up this 3-minute video showcasing a Smalltalk class browser, method finder, and debugger: http://vimeo.com/27850933 http://vimeo.com/27850933
  - cwp 15y ago