4 ms·

On the topic of panic rooms in general, it is probably more practical to turn your bedroom into a panic room by having a reinforced door frame and solid door.

On the topic of panic rooms in general, it is probably more practical to turn your bedroom into a panic room by having a reinforced door frame and solid door. And possibly either less-breakable windows, or window shutters that can be automatically closed on command. Then have attic access through your closet ceiling, using a set of shelves as a ladder. My thinking is that if a break in happens when you are sleeping then you won't have to worry about needing to move to the panic room. And you don't have a panic room taking up space in your residence. The bedroom door and shutters could be set to automatically close & lock when your house alarm is tripped (and if you aren't in your bedroom at the time you can access it via a code or fingerprint swipe). Also, a basic panic room could be set up fairly inexpensively which is useful in case of a no-knock SWAT that got the wrong house. Gives you time to wake up, react, head to the attic and hide out until the situation calms a bit. (I wonder if a SWAT response team would know to check the attic, esp. if the closet ceiling is disguised and reinforcably lockable from the attic side).

madengr 5y ago
paulcole 5y ago
> I wonder if a SWAT response team would know to check the attic No, they’re trained to ignore entire areas of a home that could contain a person.
- derekp7 5y ago
  Fair point, but I was just thinking of a way to buy some time. Thinking of cases where a tactical entry (to a wrong residence) startled the resident while they were sleeping, and the startled reaction lead to a bad outcome (multiple stories recently on this). In a perfect world, I'd like to see a setup where when there is police error, the target can still be protected from a panic shooting while still demonstrating that they are not a threat. The other option is to buy enough time to scramble to the attic, then scramble over to a shaft that gets you down into a wall cavity with access to a better hiding spot or an outside escape.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    > In a perfect world, I'd like to see a setup where when there is police error, the target can still be protected from a panic shooting while still demonstrating that they are not a threat. The other option is to buy enough time to scramble to the attic, then scramble over to a shaft that gets you down into a wall cavity with access to a better hiding spot or an outside escape. You’re drastically overthinking this. There’s no way to make sure this is only sold to people who are the accidental targets of tactical entry. Just ban no-knock warrants — especially ones in the dead of night.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
In a house with drywall interior walls over wooden or metal studs, a framing hammer will make a reinforced door completely irrelevant. Somebody that wants to get to you can just come through the wall in a few seconds.
- derekp7 5y ago
  This also depends on how much wall space is in common between the bedroom and other parts of the house. In a previous house I lived in, the door was at the top of the stairs, and you would need a ladder / scaffolding to get to the part of the wall that was facing the stairwell. In that case there would be fairly little wall to reinforce with extra studs. Basically, wall studs are 16 inches apart on center (so a 14.5 inch gap between studs), so you would at most have to double the number of studs to have a somewhat less vulnerable room. Or, if retrofitting, several 3/4 inch plywood sheets screwed onto the vulnerable wall section, with decorative paneling covering them, may also be somewhat effective. Also remember that the object is to buy time. And most threats wont be a tactical threat, but from a random break in from someone that doesn't know much of what they are doing (but will know enough to panic shoot an occupant when they see one).
- vkou 5y ago
  Nothing you can buy is going to protect you from a Spetsnatz team that is kidnapping you out of your home to stuff into a duffle bag marked 'Diplomatic mail'. But if you in your suburban home are so incredibly paranoid about getting burgled, a heavy bedroom door with a lock will provide you 99% of the protection for 1% of the price. And, unlike a gun and an itchy trigger finger is incredibly unlikely to kill or maim you, a family member, or an innocent bystander.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    > Nothing you can buy is going to protect you from a Spetsnatz team that is kidnapping you out of your home to stuff into a duffle bag marked 'Diplomatic mail'. My understanding is that this is precisely what some of the high-end panic rooms (notably the subterranean form) promise.
giantg2 5y ago
"...it is probably more practical to turn your bedroom into a panic room..." It's not really practical to turn any room into a true panic room. Panic rooms are made to be very robust, so you can essentially wait out the threat. Sure, stuff like laminating windows and having strong doors/frames can be good. It's only going to buy you limited time (check out some firefighter breaching videos, lock picking videos, etc; most people wildly overestimate how secure/sturdy their house is; good thing the threats are generally unsophisticated). You could have a disguised hiding spot, like in the attic, but I don't know that it really meets the definition of panic room. Yes, SWAT will check the attic (eventually). And my guess is that if you're worried about being accidentally labeled a threat and shot, that they will be more likely to label someone hiding in the attic as resisting. Although, maybe you can call 911 and they could instruct you how to safely surrender. Basically, just take some basic precautions that buy you time and make your property less of a target. Then have a plan for when someone might actually gain entry (sounds like you might be interested in hiding, which can be difficult unless you have a purpose built area like you mentioned).
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  Your comment about the weakness of doors is on point. I expect a burglar to break my door in a few seconds despite the relative sturdiness. What protects me is the city I live in, the neighbors and statistics. This is also why I want to have an electronic lock. Everyone is yelling me how I will get hacked and I wipe move to get hacked instead of someone destroying my door.

madengr 5y ago

paulcole 5y ago

> I wonder if a SWAT response team would know to check the attic No, they’re trained to ignore entire areas of a home that could contain a person.

derekp7 5y ago
Fair point, but I was just thinking of a way to buy some time. Thinking of cases where a tactical entry (to a wrong residence) startled the resident while they were sleeping, and the startled reaction lead to a bad outcome (multiple stories recently on this). In a perfect world, I'd like to see a setup where when there is police error, the target can still be protected from a panic shooting while still demonstrating that they are not a threat. The other option is to buy enough time to scramble to the attic, then scramble over to a shaft that gets you down into a wall cavity with access to a better hiding spot or an outside escape.
- paulcole 5y ago
  > In a perfect world, I'd like to see a setup where when there is police error, the target can still be protected from a panic shooting while still demonstrating that they are not a threat. The other option is to buy enough time to scramble to the attic, then scramble over to a shaft that gets you down into a wall cavity with access to a better hiding spot or an outside escape. You’re drastically overthinking this. There’s no way to make sure this is only sold to people who are the accidental targets of tactical entry. Just ban no-knock warrants — especially ones in the dead of night.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

In a house with drywall interior walls over wooden or metal studs, a framing hammer will make a reinforced door completely irrelevant. Somebody that wants to get to you can just come through the wall in a few seconds.

derekp7 5y ago
This also depends on how much wall space is in common between the bedroom and other parts of the house. In a previous house I lived in, the door was at the top of the stairs, and you would need a ladder / scaffolding to get to the part of the wall that was facing the stairwell. In that case there would be fairly little wall to reinforce with extra studs. Basically, wall studs are 16 inches apart on center (so a 14.5 inch gap between studs), so you would at most have to double the number of studs to have a somewhat less vulnerable room. Or, if retrofitting, several 3/4 inch plywood sheets screwed onto the vulnerable wall section, with decorative paneling covering them, may also be somewhat effective. Also remember that the object is to buy time. And most threats wont be a tactical threat, but from a random break in from someone that doesn't know much of what they are doing (but will know enough to panic shoot an occupant when they see one).
vkou 5y ago
Nothing you can buy is going to protect you from a Spetsnatz team that is kidnapping you out of your home to stuff into a duffle bag marked 'Diplomatic mail'. But if you in your suburban home are so incredibly paranoid about getting burgled, a heavy bedroom door with a lock will provide you 99% of the protection for 1% of the price. And, unlike a gun and an itchy trigger finger is incredibly unlikely to kill or maim you, a family member, or an innocent bystander.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  > Nothing you can buy is going to protect you from a Spetsnatz team that is kidnapping you out of your home to stuff into a duffle bag marked 'Diplomatic mail'. My understanding is that this is precisely what some of the high-end panic rooms (notably the subterranean form) promise.

giantg2 5y ago

"...it is probably more practical to turn your bedroom into a panic room..." It's not really practical to turn any room into a true panic room. Panic rooms are made to be very robust, so you can essentially wait out the threat. Sure, stuff like laminating windows and having strong doors/frames can be good. It's only going to buy you limited time (check out some firefighter breaching videos, lock picking videos, etc; most people wildly overestimate how secure/sturdy their house is; good thing the threats are generally unsophisticated). You could have a disguised hiding spot, like in the attic, but I don't know that it really meets the definition of panic room. Yes, SWAT will check the attic (eventually). And my guess is that if you're worried about being accidentally labeled a threat and shot, that they will be more likely to label someone hiding in the attic as resisting. Although, maybe you can call 911 and they could instruct you how to safely surrender. Basically, just take some basic precautions that buy you time and make your property less of a target. Then have a plan for when someone might actually gain entry (sounds like you might be interested in hiding, which can be difficult unless you have a purpose built area like you mentioned).

BrandoElFollito 5y ago
Your comment about the weakness of doors is on point. I expect a burglar to break my door in a few seconds despite the relative sturdiness. What protects me is the city I live in, the neighbors and statistics. This is also why I want to have an electronic lock. Everyone is yelling me how I will get hacked and I wipe move to get hacked instead of someone destroying my door.