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Can any audiophile tell me why even a professional should buy $1500 IEM? I just bought $45 QZ ZS10 Pro and they might be the best sounding and noise blocking h

Can any audiophile tell me why even a professional should buy $1500 IEM? I just bought $45 QZ ZS10 Pro and they might be the best sounding and noise blocking headphones I’ve ever had. Perfect for drumming along to tracks. Haven’t gotten to try them plugged in on stage yet. Are these leagues better in some respect?

gridspy 5y ago
The usual justification for professional IEM is hearing protection. It's often loud on stage. There is a danger with headphones that you will turn them up too loud (esp. in a loud environment) so you can hear the signal clearly. As a musical professional your hearing is vital to the quality of your performance so you should protect it.
- germinalphrase 5y ago
  To totally derail - are there solid reusable earplugs for saving my hearing at shows without dramatically altering the feeling of the performance?
  - brian-armstrong 5y ago
    Yes, Hearos https://www.hearos.com/collections/all-consumer/products/earplugs-high-fidelity-series-with-free-case https://www.hearos.com/collections/all-consumer/products/ear... The plug allows the sound to be more natural while providing good protection
    - brianpan 5y ago
      +1 Hearos for a good, cheap option. I upgraded to the slightly more expensive Loop earplugs which were more comfortable. Both give something like 12-15 db noise reduction. https://us.loopearplugs.com/ https://us.loopearplugs.com/
  - tonyarkles 5y ago
    https://www.etymotic.com/passive-hearing-protection/ https://www.etymotic.com/passive-hearing-protection/ A friend put together a group buy of these at least a decade ago and mine are still doing great. They’ve gotten completely disgusting but some isopropyl followed by a warm water wash cleaned them right up. It’s kind of weird that such a relatively niche product is so cheap… I am so happy with them that I would be a repeat customer but the best I can do is promote them a bit since I’ve got no reason to send them another $20 yet.
  - amplicons4ever 5y ago
    Check out Etymotic Research--they make all kinds of high-end auditory systems, including earplugs[1]. I've been very happy with their Ety-Plugs and also have a set of their ER20XS's [1]. They're relatively inexpensive ($16-25 USD) and work like a charm. They're amazing at reducing the volume very evenly across the frequency range without distorting the sound quality or balance, useful for everyone not just professional performers. You can hold a normal conversation in a really loud environment without screaming, they're great. [1] https://www.etymotic.com/product/er20xs/ https://www.etymotic.com/product/er20xs/
  - switz 5y ago
    You can get custom made concert earplugs, they run ~$200 and are absolutely worth it if you go to a lot of concerts. I see 75+ shows a year and it pays for itself very quickly. You can go to an audiologist or look into ACS[0] (who will take your molds for free if you're in NYC). I'm skeptical of anyone who claims they have zero effect on the music, but the reality is they are quite unobtrusive and the manipulation is minimal. I find they reduce the fuzziness and reverb of shows, whether that sound is intentional by the artist or not, leading to a crisper sound (again, sometimes maybe to the slight detriment of the experience). If a concert is very loud they will greatly improve your enjoyment of the music. If you see concerts regularly, do it yesterday. [0] https://1of1custom.com/collections/acs-pro-series-custom-earplugs https://1of1custom.com/collections/acs-pro-series-custom-ear...
  - GuB-42 5y ago
    Yes, your local audiologist probably have them. These are mostly targeted at professional musicians. Mine were about 150€, mold included. They usually have options regarding the level of attenuation you need, the ones with the highest attenuation tend to have the highest level of distorsion, but in all cases, it is way better than standard earplugs. I also tried standard sized filtered earplugs (about $20) but without much success. Maybe my ear canals are weird but I couldn't get them to fit properly, so the sound mostly went around the filter, not through it, making them essentially useless in addition to being uncomfortable and not holding well. So if you are like me, save your $20 and get custom molded ones.
willis936 5y ago
Like any product more than 2x the price of competition with the same feature set: there is no real practical value proposition. If you were to consider $300 CIEMs to foam-tipped earbuds: the discussion is much different. Passive isolation is more than 20 dB higher, seal is guaranteed so bass response is much better, etc.
hokumguru 5y ago
The audiophile world is one of incredibly quickly diminishing returns, especially when you're talking about IEMs. Those KZ's that you have are a great value and that scales about linearly up to the $100 mark, after that I'd say things begin to drop off quite quickly. As for why you'd buy CIEMs, its mostly about better isolation and comfort. Your average customs will have a quality on par with universals a bit below their price but will be more ergonomic and isolating. The benefits are generally more in line with professional musician rather than audiophile.
dsr_ 5y ago
No, they are incrementally better. For about $100-150 you can improve (probably noticeably) on accuracy. For $300 you can improve a little bit more. For $600 you probably can't notice the difference, and for a thousand, you're buying for something other than accuracy. Might rhyme with shatus or gling. In the last five years the bottom end of the market went from 2s and 3s for $50 to 7s and 8s. That doesn't mean the 2s and 3s aren't still around...
brian-armstrong 5y ago
Noise canceling is not necessarily going to protect your hearing on all frequencies. The point of having a really good seal is to make sure you can still hear 10 years down the road. That is worth the price of admission.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  They're not actually ANC, it's just from a good seal.
- idontwantthis 5y ago
  Mine are silicone in ears that block enough noise. Could swap in foam tips for even more. I completely agree and always play with protection.
  - brian-armstrong 5y ago
    I think it'd be hard to guess then whether it's sufficient protection. Custom fit IEMs are very snug and provide great isolation. If you're not touring regularly, you are probably fine with less.
    - idontwantthis 5y ago
      But I can have any IEMs custom fit. Is there any advantage to the sound quality?
spmurrayzzz 5y ago
15-20 years ago when I was still touring, custom IEMs were the defacto standard for drummers, at least the circles I was in. Crazy expensive, but absolutely worth it if you cared at all about a solid mix while you're playing live (and also value your hearing). I imagine that a ton has changed since then with respect to quality of consumer-grade earphones and I don't have a great frame of reference for that anymore. But I do know many live audio folks, drummers, and other touring professionals still using IEMs, that could be as much habit as utility though.
nunez 5y ago
If you get a good impression done, custom molds are superior to anything for a few reasons. They fit your ear perfectly and block everything out. That's why most of the really popular touring musicians go custom-molded, usually with UE, Westone, or Jerry Harvey. They are also VERY comfortable when molded properly. It's like a glove for your ears. You won't feel anything like it with silicone or foam. I can wear my custom plugs all night or for an entire concert, easy. Foam itches after 30 minutes. Also, foam muddies audio by sacrificing some high end and bloating mids/low-end. If you care about audio reproduction, foam is usually a sacrifice for IEMs, and you usually have to EQ your gear to get the losses back. The impressions have to be really good, though, and the turnaround time from the vendor needs to be fast. Custom molds are terrible when they don't fit right. I hate the turnaround time; waiting is the worst part. Ear impressioning is still kind-of stone age, IMO. The audiologist stuffs your ear with a curing paste, and you can't move for the five minutes it takes to cure. However, some people have really flexible ear canals that cause earplugs to lose their seal when you chew or smile, so you might need to do a block-bite impression to account for that. Moving your head at all can invalidate the entire impression. It's annoying. I wish audiologists did an impression panel so that manufacturers could send a sample of buds and have you trial them all within a return period (or charge you if you really want to keep them all). Oh well; a man can dream. For most people, custom mold earbuds for music listening is way unnecessary, especially with IEMs getting incredibly good at noise cancelling. If you hate foam plugs or just want a set of buds that are really yours, custom is your only route though. However, I will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS recommend custom earplugs for sleep and for loud environments, like hunting or concerts. They last forever, are super comfortable, and can make a loud environment tolerable (i.e. if your partner snores) and actually better-sounding, all while preserving your hearing (which from what I've heard SUCKS to lose).
- idontwantthis 5y ago
  Okay but none of that is $1500 right? The author was testing IEMs that were already $1500 before customization.
  - nunez 5y ago
    The IEMs are usually between $400-$2000 excluding impressions.
yellow_lead 5y ago
I have these too! Great mid-range option with a great seal (for me) and great quality. I was able to hear parts of songs I didn't realize existed.
- scns 5y ago
  The mids are where the magic is, ie voice, guitar and crying babies. The auratones made their comeback because they suck at at bass and sparkle and show what is happening there.
scns 5y ago
Intruiging, thanks for the recommendation. Their description could use some love, but i kinda get what they try to say. https://kz-audio.com/kz-zs10-pro.html https://kz-audio.com/kz-zs10-pro.html

gridspy 5y ago

The usual justification for professional IEM is hearing protection. It's often loud on stage. There is a danger with headphones that you will turn them up too loud (esp. in a loud environment) so you can hear the signal clearly. As a musical professional your hearing is vital to the quality of your performance so you should protect it.

germinalphrase 5y ago
To totally derail - are there solid reusable earplugs for saving my hearing at shows without dramatically altering the feeling of the performance?
- brian-armstrong 5y ago
  Yes, Hearos https://www.hearos.com/collections/all-consumer/products/earplugs-high-fidelity-series-with-free-case https://www.hearos.com/collections/all-consumer/products/ear... The plug allows the sound to be more natural while providing good protection
  - brianpan 5y ago
    +1 Hearos for a good, cheap option. I upgraded to the slightly more expensive Loop earplugs which were more comfortable. Both give something like 12-15 db noise reduction. https://us.loopearplugs.com/ https://us.loopearplugs.com/
- tonyarkles 5y ago
  https://www.etymotic.com/passive-hearing-protection/ https://www.etymotic.com/passive-hearing-protection/ A friend put together a group buy of these at least a decade ago and mine are still doing great. They’ve gotten completely disgusting but some isopropyl followed by a warm water wash cleaned them right up. It’s kind of weird that such a relatively niche product is so cheap… I am so happy with them that I would be a repeat customer but the best I can do is promote them a bit since I’ve got no reason to send them another $20 yet.
- amplicons4ever 5y ago
  Check out Etymotic Research--they make all kinds of high-end auditory systems, including earplugs[1]. I've been very happy with their Ety-Plugs and also have a set of their ER20XS's [1]. They're relatively inexpensive ($16-25 USD) and work like a charm. They're amazing at reducing the volume very evenly across the frequency range without distorting the sound quality or balance, useful for everyone not just professional performers. You can hold a normal conversation in a really loud environment without screaming, they're great. [1] https://www.etymotic.com/product/er20xs/ https://www.etymotic.com/product/er20xs/
- switz 5y ago
  You can get custom made concert earplugs, they run ~$200 and are absolutely worth it if you go to a lot of concerts. I see 75+ shows a year and it pays for itself very quickly. You can go to an audiologist or look into ACS[0] (who will take your molds for free if you're in NYC). I'm skeptical of anyone who claims they have zero effect on the music, but the reality is they are quite unobtrusive and the manipulation is minimal. I find they reduce the fuzziness and reverb of shows, whether that sound is intentional by the artist or not, leading to a crisper sound (again, sometimes maybe to the slight detriment of the experience). If a concert is very loud they will greatly improve your enjoyment of the music. If you see concerts regularly, do it yesterday. [0] https://1of1custom.com/collections/acs-pro-series-custom-earplugs https://1of1custom.com/collections/acs-pro-series-custom-ear...
- GuB-42 5y ago
  Yes, your local audiologist probably have them. These are mostly targeted at professional musicians. Mine were about 150€, mold included. They usually have options regarding the level of attenuation you need, the ones with the highest attenuation tend to have the highest level of distorsion, but in all cases, it is way better than standard earplugs. I also tried standard sized filtered earplugs (about $20) but without much success. Maybe my ear canals are weird but I couldn't get them to fit properly, so the sound mostly went around the filter, not through it, making them essentially useless in addition to being uncomfortable and not holding well. So if you are like me, save your $20 and get custom molded ones.

willis936 5y ago

Like any product more than 2x the price of competition with the same feature set: there is no real practical value proposition. If you were to consider $300 CIEMs to foam-tipped earbuds: the discussion is much different. Passive isolation is more than 20 dB higher, seal is guaranteed so bass response is much better, etc.

hokumguru 5y ago

The audiophile world is one of incredibly quickly diminishing returns, especially when you're talking about IEMs. Those KZ's that you have are a great value and that scales about linearly up to the $100 mark, after that I'd say things begin to drop off quite quickly. As for why you'd buy CIEMs, its mostly about better isolation and comfort. Your average customs will have a quality on par with universals a bit below their price but will be more ergonomic and isolating. The benefits are generally more in line with professional musician rather than audiophile.

dsr_ 5y ago

No, they are incrementally better. For about $100-150 you can improve (probably noticeably) on accuracy. For $300 you can improve a little bit more. For $600 you probably can't notice the difference, and for a thousand, you're buying for something other than accuracy. Might rhyme with shatus or gling. In the last five years the bottom end of the market went from 2s and 3s for $50 to 7s and 8s. That doesn't mean the 2s and 3s aren't still around...

brian-armstrong 5y ago

Noise canceling is not necessarily going to protect your hearing on all frequencies. The point of having a really good seal is to make sure you can still hear 10 years down the road. That is worth the price of admission.

sudosysgen 5y ago
They're not actually ANC, it's just from a good seal.
idontwantthis 5y ago
Mine are silicone in ears that block enough noise. Could swap in foam tips for even more. I completely agree and always play with protection.
- brian-armstrong 5y ago
  I think it'd be hard to guess then whether it's sufficient protection. Custom fit IEMs are very snug and provide great isolation. If you're not touring regularly, you are probably fine with less.
  - idontwantthis 5y ago
    But I can have any IEMs custom fit. Is there any advantage to the sound quality?

spmurrayzzz 5y ago

15-20 years ago when I was still touring, custom IEMs were the defacto standard for drummers, at least the circles I was in. Crazy expensive, but absolutely worth it if you cared at all about a solid mix while you're playing live (and also value your hearing). I imagine that a ton has changed since then with respect to quality of consumer-grade earphones and I don't have a great frame of reference for that anymore. But I do know many live audio folks, drummers, and other touring professionals still using IEMs, that could be as much habit as utility though.

nunez 5y ago

If you get a good impression done, custom molds are superior to anything for a few reasons. They fit your ear perfectly and block everything out. That's why most of the really popular touring musicians go custom-molded, usually with UE, Westone, or Jerry Harvey. They are also VERY comfortable when molded properly. It's like a glove for your ears. You won't feel anything like it with silicone or foam. I can wear my custom plugs all night or for an entire concert, easy. Foam itches after 30 minutes. Also, foam muddies audio by sacrificing some high end and bloating mids/low-end. If you care about audio reproduction, foam is usually a sacrifice for IEMs, and you usually have to EQ your gear to get the losses back. The impressions have to be really good, though, and the turnaround time from the vendor needs to be fast. Custom molds are terrible when they don't fit right. I hate the turnaround time; waiting is the worst part. Ear impressioning is still kind-of stone age, IMO. The audiologist stuffs your ear with a curing paste, and you can't move for the five minutes it takes to cure. However, some people have really flexible ear canals that cause earplugs to lose their seal when you chew or smile, so you might need to do a block-bite impression to account for that. Moving your head at all can invalidate the entire impression. It's annoying. I wish audiologists did an impression panel so that manufacturers could send a sample of buds and have you trial them all within a return period (or charge you if you really want to keep them all). Oh well; a man can dream. For most people, custom mold earbuds for music listening is way unnecessary, especially with IEMs getting incredibly good at noise cancelling. If you hate foam plugs or just want a set of buds that are really yours, custom is your only route though. However, I will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS recommend custom earplugs for sleep and for loud environments, like hunting or concerts. They last forever, are super comfortable, and can make a loud environment tolerable (i.e. if your partner snores) and actually better-sounding, all while preserving your hearing (which from what I've heard SUCKS to lose).

idontwantthis 5y ago
Okay but none of that is $1500 right? The author was testing IEMs that were already $1500 before customization.
- nunez 5y ago
  The IEMs are usually between $400-$2000 excluding impressions.

yellow_lead 5y ago

I have these too! Great mid-range option with a great seal (for me) and great quality. I was able to hear parts of songs I didn't realize existed.

scns 5y ago
The mids are where the magic is, ie voice, guitar and crying babies. The auratones made their comeback because they suck at at bass and sparkle and show what is happening there.

scns 5y ago

Intruiging, thanks for the recommendation. Their description could use some love, but i kinda get what they try to say. https://kz-audio.com/kz-zs10-pro.html https://kz-audio.com/kz-zs10-pro.html