> How do you draw the line between “sensibly taking into account how real people react” and “manipulative dark patterns to literally get people to join your cul

> How do you draw the line between “sensibly taking into account how real people react” and “manipulative dark patterns to literally get people to join your cult”? Perhaps there is no clear boundary. Are you kidding? The difference was glaring when (and why) they asked you to go private. You want to teach people facts about humidifiers and then (hopefully) see if it stand up to independent inquiry. You changed your approach so that others wouldn't simply dismiss your evidence out of hand. These two would have eventually removed your ability to independently inquire. If you went to a private place with them, there would be a guru whose entire goal would be to use your insecurities and skepticism against you in order to disorient you to such a degree that you become highly suggestible. Could be with lighting, trance music, scented candles, $foo, chants, group games, or anything that pushes your physical and emotional boundaries past what you'd normally be comfortable with, etc. You get a warm feeling, then-- bam-- the guru attributes it all to $foo. Now all your reasoning abilities are fighting against the possibility that there might really be something to this $foo thing. Probably anyone whose been involved rescuing cult members will confirm how dangerous they are. But also consider your own evidence-- how many times did you profess even the mild kind of skepticism that litters HN threads here? From what I read, it seems like you didn't even explicitly mention your intimacy schedule or other red flags as you experienced them. In fact, your only pointed question seemed to come at the very moment they tried to rope you in by asking to go private. In other words-- you gave them time to make their entire cult pitch to you, and only really put up any noticeable friction at the last moment. The lesson is decidedly not how we're all a little bit like cult recruiters. It's that you were close to becoming indoctrinated in a cult. Remember the shot of adrenaline when the sirens started shrieking for you? Now imagine that happening while being surrounded by a room full of those people, with a guru looking directly at you waiting for you to explain the feeling of receiving $foo. And all it would have taken was one more innocent thought about wanting to meet a few more friends. I just realized how alarmist that last line is! I mean, do go and meet more friends. Just not ones in cults. Since you avoided this cult, just remember the feeling of them slowly pushing your boundaries, and use that as a filter in the future.