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Rust is a failure because it takes an eternity to build projects, and is now infected by NPM-hell dependency management Imagine you have to wait for hours for

Rust is a failure because it takes an eternity to build projects, and is now infected by NPM-hell dependency management Imagine you have to wait for hours for your tests to compile and then to run, and then your micro services to compile to deploy a security update for a major CVS Rust is poorly designed with poor syntax with a poor foundation that can't scale in today day and age

the__alchemist 5y ago
I've been doing a lot of translating C to Rust lately, and the Rust variants are much cleaner and more explicit. Especially regarding namespaces (ie no need to name_space_name_every_data_structure), explicitly declaring array types and references of instead of using pointers, and state management.
- Shadonototra 5y ago
  Everything 'RE'written in X, Y or Z will look better because the problem was already solved, you only have to rewrite the text
  - tialaramex 5y ago
    There's perhaps some tiny kernel of truth in this, but as a generalisation it's obviously horribly wrong. Imagine trying to rewrite GCC in Bourne shell, or trying to rewrite the Linux kernel as Java. The results are not going to "look better" they're going to be awful, these languages are a terrible fit for the problem. What people keep finding with Rust is that it's a really nice language to write software you might otherwise write in C or C++. The defaults are correct, the tooling is great, the errors are superb, it's just a very nice experience.
    - glouwbug 5y ago
      Low level systems programming in bash can be done: https://sdomi.pl/weblog/15-witchcraft-minecraft-server-in-bash/ https://sdomi.pl/weblog/15-witchcraft-minecraft-server-in-ba...
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      I wouldn't call a very nice experience using Rust in anything related to GUI, graphics programming, HPC or distributed computing. Maybe in a couple of years.
      - tialaramex 5y ago
        Some years ago I used to write some Gtk software (in C of course), and it seems to me that gtk4-rs is rather nicer than what I remember.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        That is like discussing about sports car, and someone telling that they managed to do the same route in a bycicle. No designer, no localization workflows, no integration with UI/UX tooling, assistive tech stuck in the days Sun sponsored the project, no component ecosystem.
        tialaramex 5y ago
        I can't say what you might call "a very nice experience" only tell you what my experience was like for me. Maybe you have examples of a "real" sports car GUI which you were able to re-write in Bourne shell using your preferred toolkit ? An HPC application which was a real joy to maintain once you'd converted it from C to Java ? That's the thrust of what's being discussed here, rewrites to another language, the__alchemist says they rewrote from C to Rust and it made their code "much cleaner and more explicit", Shadonototra insists this would happen for any language, and I opined (with some practical experience) that this just isn't so.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Nice experience is using CUDA with NInsights, Unreal with Blueprints and C++ live coding/HotReload, QtDesigner/WPF Blend/SwiftUI/Cocoa, MetalKit and its GPU debugger. Distributed computing stuff in Akka and Orleans. HPC example? Plenty of stuff converted from Fortran/C LEP days into C++ at CERN during LHC rampup. My little part was in Atlas-TDAQ HLT.
dataangel 5y ago
Rust in the worst case only requires recompiling a crate at a time, and in the best case you can enable incremental compilation. I don't find compiling any slower than C or C++. If you're endlessly recompiling the same thing because you build from scratch every single time you'll have that issue with any compiled language. Also what dependency hell? Rust allows multiple versions of the same crate in the same binary so not everybody has to upgrade at the same time. Eliminates 99% of the hell for me. Cargo is awesome.

the__alchemist 5y ago

I've been doing a lot of translating C to Rust lately, and the Rust variants are much cleaner and more explicit. Especially regarding namespaces (ie no need to name_space_name_every_data_structure), explicitly declaring array types and references of instead of using pointers, and state management.

Shadonototra 5y ago
Everything 'RE'written in X, Y or Z will look better because the problem was already solved, you only have to rewrite the text
- tialaramex 5y ago
  There's perhaps some tiny kernel of truth in this, but as a generalisation it's obviously horribly wrong. Imagine trying to rewrite GCC in Bourne shell, or trying to rewrite the Linux kernel as Java. The results are not going to "look better" they're going to be awful, these languages are a terrible fit for the problem. What people keep finding with Rust is that it's a really nice language to write software you might otherwise write in C or C++. The defaults are correct, the tooling is great, the errors are superb, it's just a very nice experience.
  - glouwbug 5y ago
    Low level systems programming in bash can be done: https://sdomi.pl/weblog/15-witchcraft-minecraft-server-in-bash/ https://sdomi.pl/weblog/15-witchcraft-minecraft-server-in-ba...
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    I wouldn't call a very nice experience using Rust in anything related to GUI, graphics programming, HPC or distributed computing. Maybe in a couple of years.
    - tialaramex 5y ago
      Some years ago I used to write some Gtk software (in C of course), and it seems to me that gtk4-rs is rather nicer than what I remember.
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        That is like discussing about sports car, and someone telling that they managed to do the same route in a bycicle. No designer, no localization workflows, no integration with UI/UX tooling, assistive tech stuck in the days Sun sponsored the project, no component ecosystem.
        tialaramex 5y ago
        I can't say what you might call "a very nice experience" only tell you what my experience was like for me. Maybe you have examples of a "real" sports car GUI which you were able to re-write in Bourne shell using your preferred toolkit ? An HPC application which was a real joy to maintain once you'd converted it from C to Java ? That's the thrust of what's being discussed here, rewrites to another language, the__alchemist says they rewrote from C to Rust and it made their code "much cleaner and more explicit", Shadonototra insists this would happen for any language, and I opined (with some practical experience) that this just isn't so.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Nice experience is using CUDA with NInsights, Unreal with Blueprints and C++ live coding/HotReload, QtDesigner/WPF Blend/SwiftUI/Cocoa, MetalKit and its GPU debugger. Distributed computing stuff in Akka and Orleans. HPC example? Plenty of stuff converted from Fortran/C LEP days into C++ at CERN during LHC rampup. My little part was in Atlas-TDAQ HLT.

dataangel 5y ago

Rust in the worst case only requires recompiling a crate at a time, and in the best case you can enable incremental compilation. I don't find compiling any slower than C or C++. If you're endlessly recompiling the same thing because you build from scratch every single time you'll have that issue with any compiled language. Also what dependency hell? Rust allows multiple versions of the same crate in the same binary so not everybody has to upgrade at the same time. Eliminates 99% of the hell for me. Cargo is awesome.