6 ms·

> Mandatory periodic ID transmit (via RF) by drones at specific altitudes or in specific areas Remote ID in the US will be in effect September 2023. It functio

by teeray 5y ago

> Mandatory periodic ID transmit (via RF) by drones at specific altitudes or in specific areas Remote ID in the US will be in effect September 2023. It functions like a license plate: you won’t be able to identify the operator, but law enforcement will be able to. It will broadcast the location of the drone, the altitude, and the operator’s position. All drones that need to be registered will also need Remote ID unless they’re flown in a (yet to be designated) FRIA zone (so sub-250g flying recreationally are exempt) > Standardized visual marking schemes for drones by class, for example municipal, commercial, federal, etc. None, unless it’s something required by their Certificate of Authorization, which a municipality may be operating under (otherwise it’s Part 107). Realistically, if such a requirement were stipulated it would likely be lights of a certain color / pattern.

the__alchemist 5y ago
> Remote ID in the US will be in effect September 2023. Not if RDQ can help it - https://www.racedayquads.com/pages/faa-legal-battle-to-save-fpv https://www.racedayquads.com/pages/faa-legal-battle-to-save-...
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Wonder how long it will take for a project similar to FlightAware to pop up from the people who have SDRs set up to monitor RF in their area.
dredmorbius 5y ago
If those IDs are fixed, then third parties will be able to collate identities and owners or operators over time. Do you have any details / references on the specification?
- teeray 5y ago
  There’s a randomization aspect to it to thwart that. The specs haven’t been finalized, but they’ve been given to ASTM to flesh out. The Federal Aviation Regulation basically spells out the requirements at this point. I believe this is a draft [0] (it could be final too at this point). From there, here’s the specific ID randomization: > UTM (UUID): A UTM-provided unique ID traceable to the Registration ID that can act like a “session id” to protect exposure of operationally sensitive information. [0] https://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eoDownloadDocument?pubId=&eodoc=true&documentID=7280 https://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eoDownloadDocument?pubId=&...
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    So long as the identifier is constant over time that does not matter. From your reference: UAS ID Type 1. Serial Number, 2. Registration ID, or 3. UTM U (page 10) That is: there is a single identifier, constant over time, that is assigned to each drone aircraft. The UUID standard appears to be RFC 4122: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4122 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4122 And again: so long as that's transmitted in the clear, ANY party may accumulate a database of UUIDs and locations over time, which would tend to identify the party(ies) associated with a specific drone. That might not be precisely the operator, but if drone ID "8daf5e654951a033175fb71e0a2ecc03"[1] keeps showing up at Your Fine City's Police Department ... or sewage department, or electric utility ... you might begin to draw some inferences regarding its likely owner/operator. It might be easier to do so if the identifier had, say, a specific entity element to it (say, as with LDAP or X.500 entity attributes), but the lack of such an element to the identifier itself is at best a small hinderance to owner/operator identification. ________________________________ Notes: 1. md5sum of the randomly-selected string "random drone id"
    - cmeacham98 5y ago
      Is this an attack we care about preventing? You can do the same with license plates, for example.
      - Breza 5y ago
        I really don't mind if people can trace my drone back to me. I'm a licensed ham radio operator and my call sign is linked to my real identity. And I want to know who is flying drones over my property. The two police departments that regularly fly helos over my house use the same paint scheme as their squad cars to make it obvious who they are. They use the tail numbers N911DC (Washington DC) and N911PG (Prince George's County) for the same reason.
      - dredmorbius 5y ago
        It's been a question of interest within this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30923274 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30923274

by teeray 5y ago

the__alchemist 5y ago

> Remote ID in the US will be in effect September 2023. Not if RDQ can help it - https://www.racedayquads.com/pages/faa-legal-battle-to-save-fpv https://www.racedayquads.com/pages/faa-legal-battle-to-save-...

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

Wonder how long it will take for a project similar to FlightAware to pop up from the people who have SDRs set up to monitor RF in their area.

dredmorbius 5y ago

If those IDs are fixed, then third parties will be able to collate identities and owners or operators over time. Do you have any details / references on the specification?

teeray 5y ago
There’s a randomization aspect to it to thwart that. The specs haven’t been finalized, but they’ve been given to ASTM to flesh out. The Federal Aviation Regulation basically spells out the requirements at this point. I believe this is a draft [0] (it could be final too at this point). From there, here’s the specific ID randomization: > UTM (UUID): A UTM-provided unique ID traceable to the Registration ID that can act like a “session id” to protect exposure of operationally sensitive information. [0] https://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eoDownloadDocument?pubId=&eodoc=true&documentID=7280 https://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eoDownloadDocument?pubId=&...
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  So long as the identifier is constant over time that does not matter. From your reference: UAS ID Type 1. Serial Number, 2. Registration ID, or 3. UTM U (page 10) That is: there is a single identifier, constant over time, that is assigned to each drone aircraft. The UUID standard appears to be RFC 4122: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4122 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4122 And again: so long as that's transmitted in the clear, ANY party may accumulate a database of UUIDs and locations over time, which would tend to identify the party(ies) associated with a specific drone. That might not be precisely the operator, but if drone ID "8daf5e654951a033175fb71e0a2ecc03"[1] keeps showing up at Your Fine City's Police Department ... or sewage department, or electric utility ... you might begin to draw some inferences regarding its likely owner/operator. It might be easier to do so if the identifier had, say, a specific entity element to it (say, as with LDAP or X.500 entity attributes), but the lack of such an element to the identifier itself is at best a small hinderance to owner/operator identification. ________________________________ Notes: 1. md5sum of the randomly-selected string "random drone id"
  - cmeacham98 5y ago
    Is this an attack we care about preventing? You can do the same with license plates, for example.
    - Breza 5y ago
      I really don't mind if people can trace my drone back to me. I'm a licensed ham radio operator and my call sign is linked to my real identity. And I want to know who is flying drones over my property. The two police departments that regularly fly helos over my house use the same paint scheme as their squad cars to make it obvious who they are. They use the tail numbers N911DC (Washington DC) and N911PG (Prince George's County) for the same reason.
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      It's been a question of interest within this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30923274 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30923274