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> If someone steals your laptop and dumps the secret, that's sure as hell not my problem to solve. I'm actually curious about the legal situation of stuff like

> If someone steals your laptop and dumps the secret, that's sure as hell not my problem to solve. I'm actually curious about the legal situation of stuff like this. Specifically, 1. You issue me a token, 2. that token gets stolen, 3. the stolen token is used to run up a big bill on your service, 4. I refuse to pay that bill (the case being "my laptop was stolen and your service was stolen -- sucks to by both of us, but it's not my obligation to reimburse you for that theft"), 5. You sue me. What happens? I'm actually genuinely curious, with respect to "stolen services": whose problem is it, really? What if we insert a new step between 3 and 4 where I tell you the token was stolen, but you choose to accept the token anyways (because eg there wasn't an automated process and the ticket takes a few hours to be resolved)? (The "you" hear is of course meant to be generic, not Sirened specifically :))

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arcbyte 5y ago
Legally it depends on the service that was stolen. Was this a banking or credit website where some consumer protections might apply or do you have any contractual limitations on cost that may protect you? But generally you will be liable for the costs incurred from items stolen from your custody. You must then recover those costs from whoever stolen from you
- thwayunion 5y ago
  > Was this a banking or credit website where some consumer protections might apply Let's assume not. > or do you have any contractual limitations on cost that may protect you? I guess in this hypothetical case the person whose laptop was stolen cancels the credit card before the charge is made. > But generally you will be liable for the costs incurred from items stolen from your custody. Right... but who was the victim of theft here? The service provider or the client of the service provider? > You must then recover those costs from whoever stolen from you So... can the service provider sue you to pay for unauthorized use of your account? Or would that get thrown out and then they would have to go sue the person who actually stole the service? I think it's clear to me that once the service provide gets cash from the person whose laptop was stolen, it's the problem of the person whose laptop was stolen. But if not, is the problem of the service provider?
  - arcbyte 5y ago
    The short answer is that there are lots of caveats but the service provider will recover the bill from you. If you refuse to pay and they sue you then they will win and a court will force you to pay, even if it means a sheriff comes to your house and takes your things to sell at a public auction to come up with the money. You will have to recover from the thief if you want to be made whole. It's possible that if you know who the thief is and can serve them, you can join them to the suit the provider brings against you. Then the court will adjudicate the whole thing together and the thief will directly pay the provider. But that still starts with suing you and action on your part to find and sue the thief.
    - thwayunion 5y ago
      Interesting. Thanks!

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arcbyte 5y ago

Legally it depends on the service that was stolen. Was this a banking or credit website where some consumer protections might apply or do you have any contractual limitations on cost that may protect you? But generally you will be liable for the costs incurred from items stolen from your custody. You must then recover those costs from whoever stolen from you

thwayunion 5y ago
> Was this a banking or credit website where some consumer protections might apply Let's assume not. > or do you have any contractual limitations on cost that may protect you? I guess in this hypothetical case the person whose laptop was stolen cancels the credit card before the charge is made. > But generally you will be liable for the costs incurred from items stolen from your custody. Right... but who was the victim of theft here? The service provider or the client of the service provider? > You must then recover those costs from whoever stolen from you So... can the service provider sue you to pay for unauthorized use of your account? Or would that get thrown out and then they would have to go sue the person who actually stole the service? I think it's clear to me that once the service provide gets cash from the person whose laptop was stolen, it's the problem of the person whose laptop was stolen. But if not, is the problem of the service provider?
- arcbyte 5y ago
  The short answer is that there are lots of caveats but the service provider will recover the bill from you. If you refuse to pay and they sue you then they will win and a court will force you to pay, even if it means a sheriff comes to your house and takes your things to sell at a public auction to come up with the money. You will have to recover from the thief if you want to be made whole. It's possible that if you know who the thief is and can serve them, you can join them to the suit the provider brings against you. Then the court will adjudicate the whole thing together and the thief will directly pay the provider. But that still starts with suing you and action on your part to find and sue the thief.
  - thwayunion 5y ago
    Interesting. Thanks!