6 ms·

Since when has musk believed in free speech(as a universal constant, not as in the right protected in the US from government action) other than when it’s to his

by lovich 5y ago

Since when has musk believed in free speech(as a universal constant, not as in the right protected in the US from government action) other than when it’s to his benefit? He’s on record for retaliating against people who criticize him. He only wants free speech when it’s to his benefit

IgorPartola 5y ago
Not defending Musk, but I am just curious: what does free speech mean to you here? How would it work?
- lovich 5y ago
  Does what I think of free speech matter in this conversation or does what musk thinks matters? He talks about censoring as a violation of free speech and then engages in the same sort of behavior when he does things like canceling the Tesla order of a reporter who said things he doesn’t like. He’s an inconsistent hypocrite and there’s zero evidence that’s been presented to make me believe this move is coming from a sincerely held belief that isn’t “what’s best for Elon is the right thing” Edit: fixed autocorrect of “and” back to “an”
  - emteycz 5y ago
    Free speech does not mean "free of consequences", it means nobody deletes it or jails you for it. Forcing you [within legal/moral limits] to delete it yourself is not against free speech.
    - lovich 5y ago
      Then what is musk asking about in terms of free speech since no one is going to jail when Twitter or other social media sites ban people or censor their tweets? While I am not claiming that you personally are guilty of this, musk stans always seem like they are talking out of both sides of their mouth whenever they defend musk’s comments on free speech and jump back and forth on whether they are using the “protection from government action” definition or the “protection from condemnation of other private individuals and companies” definition
      - emteycz 5y ago
        He is asking Twitter to not hand out bans based on content and/or delete content. Not that I entirely agree with him on this topic. IMHO Twitter has the right to delete whatever they want and ban whoever they want. But he's not trying to force the change through law/government. He bought a stake and got on the board and wants to change the rules of the platform itself from there - that's a way I respect.
        lovich 5y ago
        Ok now I will say you are one of the people arguing out of both sides of your mouth. Elon musk is perfectly happy banning people from his platforms or businesses whenever he sees fit based on their speech. There is no reason to believe that he wants control of Twitter “to not hand out bans based on content and/or delete content” as you said, as he _already_ does that himself
        emteycz 5y ago
        AFAIK he had no such platform that could be described as "public forum" (his own words) until now
        lovich 5y ago
        If you will refer to my previous comment, you will see that I did not say public forum. Blocking a reporter from purchasing a Tesla after a critical review is the example I've used in this thread as an example of him removing people from his platform/businesses. Twitter being a semi public forum does not add any additional twists to this that would make me believe he is going to act differently
        emteycz 5y ago
        It's not about any twists. He himself said why it's different - he wants this particular "public forum" (as he described it) to be more as he likes it, so he bought a stake in it. I don't see why it should have any relation to his behavior in other companies. He never said he wants Tesla to be a public forum that maximizes free speech - he said that about Twitter and then put his money where his mouth is.
mostertoaster 5y ago
Yeah I think he probably wants twitter so he can censor bad things about himself. He thinks if they can censor the Biden laptop story I can get away with censoring bad PR about himself or TSLA.
snovv_crash 5y ago
He refused to censor Russian news sources via Starlink?
- lovich 5y ago
  And?
- johannes1234321 5y ago
  The hypocritical interpretation: He saw the opportunity for positive marketing for his company with only little investment.
- bitsnbytes 5y ago
  So he is pro free speech and non censorship and allowing for idiots to make idiots of themselves. I see no problem here. Having come from a quasi socialist dictatorship and being a foreign born Hispanic ,I would fight for the right of the racist idiots to post there idiotic comments. You fight ignorance with education and rational debate, not with censorship. It appears that Elon wants to treat Adults as Adults and let them make up their own minds. Unless you are bad at adulting this shouldn't be a negative, but a positive. Let me make up my own mind and don't have a Corporate Oligarch and a Gov't riddled with conflict of interest spoon feed me or use group think bullying to shape society based on Tech Oligarch morality and political believes.
  - samarama 5y ago
    Only that these idiots become one radicalized group of 40% of Americans and try to topple the United States again.
    - bitsnbytes 5y ago
      Your comment is exactly why we shouldn't censor people and the consequence of getting filtered uncontested MSM and Oligarch scrubbed news , if you are insinuating there was an insurrection. If anyone has become radicalized its the tech oligarch, hollywood, MSM and BOTH the democrat and republican party. They do nothing but promote hatred , intolerance, and violence among the people in order to keep them fighting with each other.

by lovich 5y ago

IgorPartola 5y ago

Not defending Musk, but I am just curious: what does free speech mean to you here? How would it work?

lovich 5y ago
Does what I think of free speech matter in this conversation or does what musk thinks matters? He talks about censoring as a violation of free speech and then engages in the same sort of behavior when he does things like canceling the Tesla order of a reporter who said things he doesn’t like. He’s an inconsistent hypocrite and there’s zero evidence that’s been presented to make me believe this move is coming from a sincerely held belief that isn’t “what’s best for Elon is the right thing” Edit: fixed autocorrect of “and” back to “an”
- emteycz 5y ago
  Free speech does not mean "free of consequences", it means nobody deletes it or jails you for it. Forcing you [within legal/moral limits] to delete it yourself is not against free speech.
  - lovich 5y ago
    Then what is musk asking about in terms of free speech since no one is going to jail when Twitter or other social media sites ban people or censor their tweets? While I am not claiming that you personally are guilty of this, musk stans always seem like they are talking out of both sides of their mouth whenever they defend musk’s comments on free speech and jump back and forth on whether they are using the “protection from government action” definition or the “protection from condemnation of other private individuals and companies” definition
    - emteycz 5y ago
      He is asking Twitter to not hand out bans based on content and/or delete content. Not that I entirely agree with him on this topic. IMHO Twitter has the right to delete whatever they want and ban whoever they want. But he's not trying to force the change through law/government. He bought a stake and got on the board and wants to change the rules of the platform itself from there - that's a way I respect.
      - lovich 5y ago
        Ok now I will say you are one of the people arguing out of both sides of your mouth. Elon musk is perfectly happy banning people from his platforms or businesses whenever he sees fit based on their speech. There is no reason to believe that he wants control of Twitter “to not hand out bans based on content and/or delete content” as you said, as he _already_ does that himself
        emteycz 5y ago
        AFAIK he had no such platform that could be described as "public forum" (his own words) until now
        lovich 5y ago
        If you will refer to my previous comment, you will see that I did not say public forum. Blocking a reporter from purchasing a Tesla after a critical review is the example I've used in this thread as an example of him removing people from his platform/businesses. Twitter being a semi public forum does not add any additional twists to this that would make me believe he is going to act differently
        emteycz 5y ago
        It's not about any twists. He himself said why it's different - he wants this particular "public forum" (as he described it) to be more as he likes it, so he bought a stake in it. I don't see why it should have any relation to his behavior in other companies. He never said he wants Tesla to be a public forum that maximizes free speech - he said that about Twitter and then put his money where his mouth is.

mostertoaster 5y ago

Yeah I think he probably wants twitter so he can censor bad things about himself. He thinks if they can censor the Biden laptop story I can get away with censoring bad PR about himself or TSLA.

snovv_crash 5y ago

He refused to censor Russian news sources via Starlink?

lovich 5y ago
And?
johannes1234321 5y ago
The hypocritical interpretation: He saw the opportunity for positive marketing for his company with only little investment.
bitsnbytes 5y ago
So he is pro free speech and non censorship and allowing for idiots to make idiots of themselves. I see no problem here. Having come from a quasi socialist dictatorship and being a foreign born Hispanic ,I would fight for the right of the racist idiots to post there idiotic comments. You fight ignorance with education and rational debate, not with censorship. It appears that Elon wants to treat Adults as Adults and let them make up their own minds. Unless you are bad at adulting this shouldn't be a negative, but a positive. Let me make up my own mind and don't have a Corporate Oligarch and a Gov't riddled with conflict of interest spoon feed me or use group think bullying to shape society based on Tech Oligarch morality and political believes.
- samarama 5y ago
  Only that these idiots become one radicalized group of 40% of Americans and try to topple the United States again.
  - bitsnbytes 5y ago
    Your comment is exactly why we shouldn't censor people and the consequence of getting filtered uncontested MSM and Oligarch scrubbed news , if you are insinuating there was an insurrection. If anyone has become radicalized its the tech oligarch, hollywood, MSM and BOTH the democrat and republican party. They do nothing but promote hatred , intolerance, and violence among the people in order to keep them fighting with each other.