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> This was almost certainly done by a lawyer working on his behalf. Are you arguing that when he signs his name and certifies that the (short) form is "true, c

> This was almost certainly done by a lawyer working on his behalf. Are you arguing that when he signs his name and certifies that the (short) form is "true, complete and correct" that he is not responsible because the form was prepared by an attorney of his? > being seized upon by the media How did "the media" seize on this? When I last checked, there were zero articles. And even if they had, why wouldn't discussion be merited?

colechristensen 5y ago
Does it matter? Was there any consequence of filling out a form then doing something different? I have heard it several times already today, but so what a form was filled out wrong, is there any consequence to that that anybody would care about? (I doubt anybody complaining about it actually knows anything about how important it is, it’s just being latched on to because it’s a way to match events with preexisting opinions)
- elicash 5y ago
  Yes. He is currently in court claiming SEC is picking on him on another matter and this (and the fact that the filing was late) is likely going to hurt his case with the judge. And while I don't like speculating, since you're asking me to do so I'll add that it's entirely possible that any misrepresentations here get pursued on its own merits, as well.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    It’s worth pointing out that the SEC is extremely image conscious. They count on their reputation as the hammer of god himself to keep traders in line. Elon repeatedly snubbing them is going to tempt them to pull out all the stops.
    - nullc 5y ago
      SEC's actual power is extremely limited. -- This is why e.g. with ICO scams you see them taking no action at all or imposing a fine that is just a cost-of-doing-business percentage of what they took in from the general public, at least against ICOs that are wealthy enough to keep the SEC tied up in litigation.
  - colechristensen 5y ago
    "He broke the rules!" ok, sure. But why is that form there and what is the consequence of filing one way or the other? I mean besides being punished for doing it wrong, why does that rule exist and what are the effects of filling it out one way or the other? Why is this anything more than an administrative mistake? Did he get some benefit from filing the form that way? ... or, what it seems, is this just a "gotcha!" for people to complain about on the Internet.
    - elicash 5y ago
      "Schedule 13D is intended to provide transparency to the public regarding who these shareholders are and why they have taken a significant stake in the company. The form signifies to the public that a change of control, such as a hostile takeover or proxy fight, might be about to take place so that current shareholders in the company can make informed investing and voting decisions." https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/schedule13d.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/schedule13d.asp
    - wewtyflakes 5y ago
      I think there is a perception that he regularly engages in bad faith, and this is not a simple one-off administrative mistake.
    - spicybright 5y ago
      It's really isn't a lot to ask to fill a form out correctly for transparencies sake. Especially with something as important as this. I'd almost say it was on purpose for whatever reason. You don't get rich like Elon by hiring incompetent lawyers.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- xadhominemx 5y ago
  13Ds and Gs have different filing thresholds and requirements
lstamour 5y ago
> When I last checked, there were zero articles. Can I introduce you to Matt Levine? A very popular opinion columnist - you can get his column by email even without a subscription to Bloomberg, but he’s one of the reasons I subscribe. His take on this was emailed out midday yesterday and I enjoyed every minute: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-04/elon-musk-bought-some-twitter https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-04/elon-m... You can find an archive of columns here: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/authors/ARbTQlRLRjE/matthew-s-levine https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/authors/ARbTQlRLRjE/matthe... and the email sign up is at http://www.bloomberg.com/newsletters http://www.bloomberg.com/newsletters (it used to be a bit easier to find… but pick “Money Stuff” from the list)
- iratewizard 5y ago
  I personally find this style of writing pretentious, obnoxious and egotistical.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lstamour 5y ago
    Yes, it can be. It can also be funny and informative, though. Check out the archives, a lot of topics build on past articles and not everything is a joke, sometimes there are clear and simple explanations of financial terms: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/authors/ARbTQlRLRjE/matthew-s-levine https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/authors/ARbTQlRLRjE/matthe...
  - pmalynin 5y ago
  - unmole 5y ago
    He keep making jokes about how boring and unimportant he is compared to the people he writes about. How do you get pretentious or egotistical?
next_xibalba 5y ago
> How did "the media" seize on this? Let me ask you this: how is it that you are aware of the form and how Musk (or, more likely, a lawyer) filled it out? It is being reported [1]. Every word in an article for a major news outlet is meaningful in some way. Journalists are not provided limitless word count, so decisions have to be made about what is and is not included. Now, one could definitely argue that journalists merely reported on it as they were trying to divine Musk's intentions. But to then interpret this, as the GP has done, as a sign of Musk's dishonesty and lack of integrity is too great a leap (in my opinion). [1] https://news.google.com/search?q=elon+musk+twitter+passive https://news.google.com/search?q=elon+musk+twitter+passive Edit: Also, I love your handle. "Wildcat. Wiiiiiild cat."
- elicash 5y ago
  Those articles are mostly about announcing as a passive investor -- not whether he misled the public in his filings. This collection of articles only further makes the case that the media has mostly reported uncritically his misleading claim. RE: handle, thanks! Also, I have since-posting found one article kinda about this: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/04/elon-musk-thumbs-his-nose-at-the-sec-again-with-twitter-stake.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/04/elon-musk-thumbs-his-nose-at... However, even that article is just about the lateness of the filing. It doesn't mention the debate over whether the filing itself was misleading. And this is the best example I could find!

colechristensen 5y ago

Does it matter? Was there any consequence of filling out a form then doing something different? I have heard it several times already today, but so what a form was filled out wrong, is there any consequence to that that anybody would care about? (I doubt anybody complaining about it actually knows anything about how important it is, it’s just being latched on to because it’s a way to match events with preexisting opinions)

elicash 5y ago
Yes. He is currently in court claiming SEC is picking on him on another matter and this (and the fact that the filing was late) is likely going to hurt his case with the judge. And while I don't like speculating, since you're asking me to do so I'll add that it's entirely possible that any misrepresentations here get pursued on its own merits, as well.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  It’s worth pointing out that the SEC is extremely image conscious. They count on their reputation as the hammer of god himself to keep traders in line. Elon repeatedly snubbing them is going to tempt them to pull out all the stops.
  - nullc 5y ago
    SEC's actual power is extremely limited. -- This is why e.g. with ICO scams you see them taking no action at all or imposing a fine that is just a cost-of-doing-business percentage of what they took in from the general public, at least against ICOs that are wealthy enough to keep the SEC tied up in litigation.
- colechristensen 5y ago
  "He broke the rules!" ok, sure. But why is that form there and what is the consequence of filing one way or the other? I mean besides being punished for doing it wrong, why does that rule exist and what are the effects of filling it out one way or the other? Why is this anything more than an administrative mistake? Did he get some benefit from filing the form that way? ... or, what it seems, is this just a "gotcha!" for people to complain about on the Internet.
  - elicash 5y ago
    "Schedule 13D is intended to provide transparency to the public regarding who these shareholders are and why they have taken a significant stake in the company. The form signifies to the public that a change of control, such as a hostile takeover or proxy fight, might be about to take place so that current shareholders in the company can make informed investing and voting decisions." https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/schedule13d.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/schedule13d.asp
  - wewtyflakes 5y ago
    I think there is a perception that he regularly engages in bad faith, and this is not a simple one-off administrative mistake.
  - spicybright 5y ago
    It's really isn't a lot to ask to fill a form out correctly for transparencies sake. Especially with something as important as this. I'd almost say it was on purpose for whatever reason. You don't get rich like Elon by hiring incompetent lawyers.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
xadhominemx 5y ago
13Ds and Gs have different filing thresholds and requirements

lstamour 5y ago

> When I last checked, there were zero articles. Can I introduce you to Matt Levine? A very popular opinion columnist - you can get his column by email even without a subscription to Bloomberg, but he’s one of the reasons I subscribe. His take on this was emailed out midday yesterday and I enjoyed every minute: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-04/elon-musk-bought-some-twitter https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-04/elon-m... You can find an archive of columns here: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/authors/ARbTQlRLRjE/matthew-s-levine https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/authors/ARbTQlRLRjE/matthe... and the email sign up is at http://www.bloomberg.com/newsletters http://www.bloomberg.com/newsletters (it used to be a bit easier to find… but pick “Money Stuff” from the list)

iratewizard 5y ago
I personally find this style of writing pretentious, obnoxious and egotistical.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lstamour 5y ago
  Yes, it can be. It can also be funny and informative, though. Check out the archives, a lot of topics build on past articles and not everything is a joke, sometimes there are clear and simple explanations of financial terms: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/authors/ARbTQlRLRjE/matthew-s-levine https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/authors/ARbTQlRLRjE/matthe...
- pmalynin 5y ago
- unmole 5y ago
  He keep making jokes about how boring and unimportant he is compared to the people he writes about. How do you get pretentious or egotistical?

next_xibalba 5y ago

> How did "the media" seize on this? Let me ask you this: how is it that you are aware of the form and how Musk (or, more likely, a lawyer) filled it out? It is being reported [1]. Every word in an article for a major news outlet is meaningful in some way. Journalists are not provided limitless word count, so decisions have to be made about what is and is not included. Now, one could definitely argue that journalists merely reported on it as they were trying to divine Musk's intentions. But to then interpret this, as the GP has done, as a sign of Musk's dishonesty and lack of integrity is too great a leap (in my opinion). [1] https://news.google.com/search?q=elon+musk+twitter+passive https://news.google.com/search?q=elon+musk+twitter+passive Edit: Also, I love your handle. "Wildcat. Wiiiiiild cat."

elicash 5y ago
Those articles are mostly about announcing as a passive investor -- not whether he misled the public in his filings. This collection of articles only further makes the case that the media has mostly reported uncritically his misleading claim. RE: handle, thanks! Also, I have since-posting found one article kinda about this: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/04/elon-musk-thumbs-his-nose-at-the-sec-again-with-twitter-stake.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/04/elon-musk-thumbs-his-nose-at... However, even that article is just about the lateness of the filing. It doesn't mention the debate over whether the filing itself was misleading. And this is the best example I could find!