7 ms·

Why not just like, exercise properly? Walking is the absolute bare minimum, if you don't walk every day you're not going to just be a bit unfit, you're going to

by throwaway22032 5y ago

Why not just like, exercise properly? Walking is the absolute bare minimum, if you don't walk every day you're not going to just be a bit unfit, you're going to be hilariously unhealthy. Stats like 65% of Americans being overweight make so much sense in this context. Develop a relationship with your body, it's not hard and you'll reap the rewards throughout life. Better _everything_. Walking to and from the platform of my nearest tube station is about 2.5k steps....

Bancakes 5y ago
Yeah I'm appalled the studies are fuel for excuses to exercise less. Maybe in 20 years, pop sci will figure out you can even do pushups and pullups - once a week if you feel like it.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Walking is very underrated. Most of the world is not overweight precisely because they have to walk place to place instead of being cooped up in their suburban home or skyscraper apartment where delivery just works better. Those 300-700 extra calories from daily walking activities and carrying things around add up very quickly. In terms of staying fit, walking is much more beneficial than push-ups or pull-ups. Not that you shouldn't do the latter, but many people have to make exercising a habit, and if our goal is weight loss they're more likely to do that with dedicated walking than with pull-ups or push-ups. It's just too hard to do consistently even with 100-push up programs. Obesity is yet another problem either created by, or exacerbated by our absolutely abhorrent urban planning and architecture practices.
  - lupire 5y ago
    Skyscraper apartments are extremely low portion of units, and anyway don't prevent walking. They enable the density that makes walking efficient.
    - ericmay 5y ago
      They don't prevent walking any more than living in the suburbs do. But there's a slight barrier waiting for an elevator, or walking down stairs, etc. There's a reason that grocery delivery services sprang up in places like NYC first and most prominently instead of, say, Pittsburgh. While they enable density, certainly better than the suburbs do, they're not a great solution. For large cities you want to look at a city like Paris (Ignoring the central business district which is set aside like an upset child that needs to think about what they've done) for even better and more appropriate density. I think often times people assume more skyscrapers == more density therefore good. But I think that level of density isn't healthy either, it's just more healthy in comparison to the abysmal and wasteful suburbs. Also your statement is a bit contradictory. If the skyscraper apartments are an extremely low portion of units, how do they enable density if there are so few?
  - generalenvelope 5y ago
    Somewhat nit-picky, but I would push back against the simplicity of a few things you described. Overweight/obesity is influenced by numerous factors - exercise being one of them. In general, exercise has been shown to be a far less effective factor in controlling weight when compared to diet, but that's not to say exercise isn't important to your weight/health, because it is VERY important. I would say most of the world isn't obese because their food environment combined with biological/psychological/social factors is different than that of the US, which seems to be conducive to the development of obesity. I agree that habit forming is very difficult - and specifically that, given somebody doing no activity, starting them with walking/aerobics vs a relatively specific/strenuous exercise like pullups is a good idea. I think obesity is influenced by urban planning - in the context that obesity is influenced by many environmental factors. Like the US's obsession with car-sprawl at the expense of integrating activities like walking/cycling into one's daily life. You should read about some of Herman Pontzer's research: https://dupri.duke.edu/news-events/news/herman-pontzer-explains-where-our-calories-really-go-and-what-studying-humanitys https://dupri.duke.edu/news-events/news/herman-pontzer-expla... Specifically, that doing more physical activity doesn't mean you "burn more calories". You may also find his research on metabolism interesting: https://today.duke.edu/2021/08/metabolism-changes-age-just-not-when-you-might-think https://today.duke.edu/2021/08/metabolism-changes-age-just-n... (Age 20-60, it doesn't change much at all)
    - ericmay 5y ago
      I agree completely, and thanks for sharing your thoughts and links here.
    - throwaway22032 5y ago
      It's a feedback loop, though. If you spend a day inside or doing sedentary activities then you're more likely to reach for crap food. If you're in touch with your body, even if you're doing something like a weightlifters' dirty bulk you're probably at least targeting the correct macronutrients.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  Well, the other option is that people see sky-high exercise targets (from their POV) and not even get started. Yes, you need exercise, but people can't simply carve out three hours of their day twice a week to go to the gym and if you start with that expectation, most people simply won't. Walking 30 minutes is far more doable and proving that this already gives a benefit is not a bad thing.
  - throwaway22032 5y ago
    Six hours a week of exercise is sky-high, but 40-60 hours a week of work isn't, right? In my opinion a lot of people would be served well by holistically thinking about what they're doing here on this planet.
  - Bancakes 5y ago
    People will get in shape ricky tick as you forbid them health insurance or fat tax them. Humans have no natural predator, no forced adaptations and selections - we must invent such.
    - lupire 5y ago
      The fat people with no health insurance paying alcohol and cigarette tax disprove this absurd claim. You think people like being unable to control their body?
    - Sebb767 5y ago
      Being fat is already quite expensive and literally kills you in the long run, plus it makes finding a partner for reproduction arguably a lot harder. Next to all the moral problems your suggestions would bring, it already looks like it doesn't work.
    - ilikecakeandpie 5y ago
      > People will get in shape ricky tick as you forbid them health insurance or fat tax them Increasing sin taxes (alcohol and cigarettes) and raising insurance rates on those who choose to overindulge on those aren't effective so this wouldn't be either. Forbidding people health insurance because they're not "in shape" just feels wrong and a pathway to eugenics imo
mcntsh 5y ago
I can't help but feel like this is a desperate attempt to get some adults to do just any form of exercise.
- generalenvelope 5y ago
  It might be: 80-90% of Americans don't meet the minimum physical activity guidelines as outlined here: https://health.gov/sites/default/files/2019-09/Physical_Activity_Guidelines_2nd_edition.pdf https://health.gov/sites/default/files/2019-09/Physical_Acti... There are enormous health benefits to be had by small incremental increases in aerobic/strength activities.
uglygoblin 5y ago
I'd challenge you to square your statement that "it's not hard" with the fact that 65%+ of the US population is overweight.
- Bancakes 5y ago
  These people are not only unconditioned and unmotivated, they are usually malconditioned and malmotivated. I'm tired of hearing overcomplicated esoterica such as "detox", "keto", and "fasting". Just eat 25% fewer calories than TDEE for 3 months.
  - throwaway98797 5y ago
    lol just spend less money then you earn just listen before you talk just breath before you send that email Just just just We are humans just anything is hard and lacking compassion isn’t helping y u not just have compassion?
    - Bancakes 5y ago
      I see where you're coming from. Following a diet is a psychological challenge, not a physiological one. As such, hundreds of millions of religious people have no trouble following strict diets their whole lives for no more than to appease a deity - something greater than us which gives us purpose. I'm following lent as we speak. Are you less than a middle eastern child, that you cannot follow a basic ritual? Are you less than a neanderthal, that your two bare hands are not enough or sufficient to feed you?
      - throwaway98797 5y ago
        being compared to neanderthal is shame based compliance so many folks don’t try because they feel bad. the key isn’t to up the shame, it’s to show how even a little bit can help. encourage people to walk more today than yesterday, make one healthy food substitution. small baby steps with encouragement makes people generally happier and less likely to shame binge. Or give up. you can white knuckle this stuff or find love and enjoy the journey. What’s more sustainable?
lynguist 5y ago
Just imagine your grandparents exercising. No, you just need them to get to walk. It’s absolutely detrimental to their health and living. No one needs exercise for living, everyone needs daily walks for living. It resets the brain, you see more than four walls, you feel the breeze, your joints work, your brain is refreshed. Not more than that is needed for life.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  Well, I don't know about yours, but my grandparents have heart disease.
quirkot 5y ago
>> Walking to and from the platform of my nearest tube station is about 2.5k steps.... There are no side walks where I live. The roads have 55mph speed limits and are lined with drainage ditches even if I wanted to walk them. Working from home, I might get ~900 "organic" steps/day unless I go somewhere explicitly to walk (15+ minute drive each way). It's a structural issue more than personal choice
- Bancakes 5y ago
  Ride a bicycle for 3x the distance in high gears.
  - loeg 5y ago
    I’m a very fast and experienced cyclist — and riding on 55mph roads is very, very uncomfortable.
    - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
      There better be BIG shoulders or I'm not doing it. Too many great cyclists have lost their lives on the narrow shoulder of a highway.
  - ch4s3 5y ago
    > There are no side walks where I live. The roads have 55mph speed limits and are lined with drainage ditches This doesn't sound very bike-able at all
  - swader999 5y ago
    Or get an ebike. Mod it so it can pace cars. Add even higher gears so you can exercise on it.
    - loeg 5y ago
      An ebike that goes 55mph is an electric motorcycle.
newsclues 5y ago
I exercise despite the cars and their pollution, the junkies in the park, the gangs who shoot people, and the government that in the last two years said stay inside. But I can see why people are reluctant to go out and get some exercise from their boxes in the sky, especially when it’s cold out!
- swader999 5y ago
  I simply stopped taking the elevator when I worked on the ninth floor.
russellbeattie 5y ago
Some of us don't live in third world countries like where ever it is you are where you need to walk places.
krooj 5y ago
It's not the point - your body is built to walk. There are so many things that go wrong when you cease to walk: loss of core strength which results in a propensity to herniated discs and other spinal/neurological problems, circulatory issues due to the venous pumps of your calf muscles not working as they were designed, etc... The human body is literally designed for walking - not running, cycling, swimming, lifting - walking.
- anthonypasq 5y ago
  wtf does this mean? the human body is absolutely designed to run
  - j3s 5y ago
    it is not designed at all. we evolved doing a lot of both - but throughout history, people have walked a _lot_ more than people have ran.
    - maerF0x0 5y ago
      perhaps parent commenter meant this? https://martinfowler.com/tags/evolutionary%20design.html https://martinfowler.com/tags/evolutionary%20design.html It's become pretty boring to see so many HN threads devolve into people nitpicking a single word in their post.
    - anthonypasq 5y ago
      well despite that fact that nothing about humans was "designed", humans are quite literally the best long distance runners in the animal kingdom. Its one of the only physical things we are actually elite at. We are weak and slow but we can run forever. most early hunting was by running animals to exhaustion. The fact we are bipedal and have very efficient heat dispersion (sweating) all point to the fact that we were meant to run.
      - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
        > most early hunting was by running animals to exhaustion. Seems like a poor way to go about it to be honest. Sure you just ran that gazelle down over 20 miles, but now you're 20 miles from home and have to carry a gazelle back.
notacoward 5y ago
> Why not just like, exercise properly? Why do you think walking isn't exercising properly? Exercise doesn't have to be weight-bearing or high-intensity to count. In fact, since those types of exercise increase injury risk, moderate exercise is probably better. Study after study after study - which I can cite just as soon as you cite some of your own - shows that walking or similar exercise captures practically all of health benefits without any risk (even to those who are older or who have already had heart attacks etc.) and with more likelihood of people sticking to it. Why go harder? And yes, when you dismiss walking as not exercising properly you are suggesting that.
- generalenvelope 5y ago
  > Why go harder? Because there's a dose dependent relationship between aerobic activity and positive health outcomes - the more you do, the more you get - and aerobics that are more intense than walking provide more "bang for back". And because there are unique benefits to weight bearing activities. Strengthening your muscles, for example, improves your ability to handle your body in space and reduces risk of falls, in addition to increasing bone density, which reduces severity of such injury from any falls. Sarcopenia (loss of muscle mass) is associated with significantly worse mortality when in the hospital. Having strength and confidence in your body improves quality of life through enabling you to keep up with physical tasks as you age. Reinforcing that movement is safe, especially loaded movement, is associated with better pain outcomes. Exercise does not have to be weight bearing or high-intensity. But if you are able and interested in your health, you should do those things. I only agree with your implication re:injury risk in the sense that lifting something up is inherently more dangerous than not because there is more load involved. This is a nonsensical reason to only walk, as humans adapt well to loading given reasonable fatigue and load management. Most people should not be concerned about any increased injury risk - but you should always consult with your doctor. See the physical activity guidelines for Americans: https://health.gov/sites/default/files/2019-09/Physical_Activity_Guidelines_2nd_edition.pdf https://health.gov/sites/default/files/2019-09/Physical_Acti... (There's lots of evidence provided).
  - notacoward 5y ago

Bancakes 5y ago

Yeah I'm appalled the studies are fuel for excuses to exercise less. Maybe in 20 years, pop sci will figure out you can even do pushups and pullups - once a week if you feel like it.

ericmay 5y ago
Walking is very underrated. Most of the world is not overweight precisely because they have to walk place to place instead of being cooped up in their suburban home or skyscraper apartment where delivery just works better. Those 300-700 extra calories from daily walking activities and carrying things around add up very quickly. In terms of staying fit, walking is much more beneficial than push-ups or pull-ups. Not that you shouldn't do the latter, but many people have to make exercising a habit, and if our goal is weight loss they're more likely to do that with dedicated walking than with pull-ups or push-ups. It's just too hard to do consistently even with 100-push up programs. Obesity is yet another problem either created by, or exacerbated by our absolutely abhorrent urban planning and architecture practices.
- lupire 5y ago
  Skyscraper apartments are extremely low portion of units, and anyway don't prevent walking. They enable the density that makes walking efficient.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    They don't prevent walking any more than living in the suburbs do. But there's a slight barrier waiting for an elevator, or walking down stairs, etc. There's a reason that grocery delivery services sprang up in places like NYC first and most prominently instead of, say, Pittsburgh. While they enable density, certainly better than the suburbs do, they're not a great solution. For large cities you want to look at a city like Paris (Ignoring the central business district which is set aside like an upset child that needs to think about what they've done) for even better and more appropriate density. I think often times people assume more skyscrapers == more density therefore good. But I think that level of density isn't healthy either, it's just more healthy in comparison to the abysmal and wasteful suburbs. Also your statement is a bit contradictory. If the skyscraper apartments are an extremely low portion of units, how do they enable density if there are so few?
- generalenvelope 5y ago
  Somewhat nit-picky, but I would push back against the simplicity of a few things you described. Overweight/obesity is influenced by numerous factors - exercise being one of them. In general, exercise has been shown to be a far less effective factor in controlling weight when compared to diet, but that's not to say exercise isn't important to your weight/health, because it is VERY important. I would say most of the world isn't obese because their food environment combined with biological/psychological/social factors is different than that of the US, which seems to be conducive to the development of obesity. I agree that habit forming is very difficult - and specifically that, given somebody doing no activity, starting them with walking/aerobics vs a relatively specific/strenuous exercise like pullups is a good idea. I think obesity is influenced by urban planning - in the context that obesity is influenced by many environmental factors. Like the US's obsession with car-sprawl at the expense of integrating activities like walking/cycling into one's daily life. You should read about some of Herman Pontzer's research: https://dupri.duke.edu/news-events/news/herman-pontzer-explains-where-our-calories-really-go-and-what-studying-humanitys https://dupri.duke.edu/news-events/news/herman-pontzer-expla... Specifically, that doing more physical activity doesn't mean you "burn more calories". You may also find his research on metabolism interesting: https://today.duke.edu/2021/08/metabolism-changes-age-just-not-when-you-might-think https://today.duke.edu/2021/08/metabolism-changes-age-just-n... (Age 20-60, it doesn't change much at all)
  - ericmay 5y ago
    I agree completely, and thanks for sharing your thoughts and links here.
  - throwaway22032 5y ago
    It's a feedback loop, though. If you spend a day inside or doing sedentary activities then you're more likely to reach for crap food. If you're in touch with your body, even if you're doing something like a weightlifters' dirty bulk you're probably at least targeting the correct macronutrients.
Sebb767 5y ago
Well, the other option is that people see sky-high exercise targets (from their POV) and not even get started. Yes, you need exercise, but people can't simply carve out three hours of their day twice a week to go to the gym and if you start with that expectation, most people simply won't. Walking 30 minutes is far more doable and proving that this already gives a benefit is not a bad thing.
- throwaway22032 5y ago
  Six hours a week of exercise is sky-high, but 40-60 hours a week of work isn't, right? In my opinion a lot of people would be served well by holistically thinking about what they're doing here on this planet.
- Bancakes 5y ago
  People will get in shape ricky tick as you forbid them health insurance or fat tax them. Humans have no natural predator, no forced adaptations and selections - we must invent such.
  - lupire 5y ago
    The fat people with no health insurance paying alcohol and cigarette tax disprove this absurd claim. You think people like being unable to control their body?
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    Being fat is already quite expensive and literally kills you in the long run, plus it makes finding a partner for reproduction arguably a lot harder. Next to all the moral problems your suggestions would bring, it already looks like it doesn't work.
  - ilikecakeandpie 5y ago
    > People will get in shape ricky tick as you forbid them health insurance or fat tax them Increasing sin taxes (alcohol and cigarettes) and raising insurance rates on those who choose to overindulge on those aren't effective so this wouldn't be either. Forbidding people health insurance because they're not "in shape" just feels wrong and a pathway to eugenics imo

mcntsh 5y ago

I can't help but feel like this is a desperate attempt to get some adults to do just any form of exercise.

generalenvelope 5y ago
It might be: 80-90% of Americans don't meet the minimum physical activity guidelines as outlined here: https://health.gov/sites/default/files/2019-09/Physical_Activity_Guidelines_2nd_edition.pdf https://health.gov/sites/default/files/2019-09/Physical_Acti... There are enormous health benefits to be had by small incremental increases in aerobic/strength activities.

uglygoblin 5y ago

I'd challenge you to square your statement that "it's not hard" with the fact that 65%+ of the US population is overweight.

Bancakes 5y ago
These people are not only unconditioned and unmotivated, they are usually malconditioned and malmotivated. I'm tired of hearing overcomplicated esoterica such as "detox", "keto", and "fasting". Just eat 25% fewer calories than TDEE for 3 months.
- throwaway98797 5y ago
  lol just spend less money then you earn just listen before you talk just breath before you send that email Just just just We are humans just anything is hard and lacking compassion isn’t helping y u not just have compassion?
  - Bancakes 5y ago
    I see where you're coming from. Following a diet is a psychological challenge, not a physiological one. As such, hundreds of millions of religious people have no trouble following strict diets their whole lives for no more than to appease a deity - something greater than us which gives us purpose. I'm following lent as we speak. Are you less than a middle eastern child, that you cannot follow a basic ritual? Are you less than a neanderthal, that your two bare hands are not enough or sufficient to feed you?
    - throwaway98797 5y ago
      being compared to neanderthal is shame based compliance so many folks don’t try because they feel bad. the key isn’t to up the shame, it’s to show how even a little bit can help. encourage people to walk more today than yesterday, make one healthy food substitution. small baby steps with encouragement makes people generally happier and less likely to shame binge. Or give up. you can white knuckle this stuff or find love and enjoy the journey. What’s more sustainable?

lynguist 5y ago

Just imagine your grandparents exercising. No, you just need them to get to walk. It’s absolutely detrimental to their health and living. No one needs exercise for living, everyone needs daily walks for living. It resets the brain, you see more than four walls, you feel the breeze, your joints work, your brain is refreshed. Not more than that is needed for life.

SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
Well, I don't know about yours, but my grandparents have heart disease.

quirkot 5y ago

>> Walking to and from the platform of my nearest tube station is about 2.5k steps.... There are no side walks where I live. The roads have 55mph speed limits and are lined with drainage ditches even if I wanted to walk them. Working from home, I might get ~900 "organic" steps/day unless I go somewhere explicitly to walk (15+ minute drive each way). It's a structural issue more than personal choice

Bancakes 5y ago
Ride a bicycle for 3x the distance in high gears.
- loeg 5y ago
  I’m a very fast and experienced cyclist — and riding on 55mph roads is very, very uncomfortable.
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    There better be BIG shoulders or I'm not doing it. Too many great cyclists have lost their lives on the narrow shoulder of a highway.
- ch4s3 5y ago
  > There are no side walks where I live. The roads have 55mph speed limits and are lined with drainage ditches This doesn't sound very bike-able at all
- swader999 5y ago
  Or get an ebike. Mod it so it can pace cars. Add even higher gears so you can exercise on it.
  - loeg 5y ago
    An ebike that goes 55mph is an electric motorcycle.

newsclues 5y ago

I exercise despite the cars and their pollution, the junkies in the park, the gangs who shoot people, and the government that in the last two years said stay inside. But I can see why people are reluctant to go out and get some exercise from their boxes in the sky, especially when it’s cold out!

swader999 5y ago
I simply stopped taking the elevator when I worked on the ninth floor.

russellbeattie 5y ago

Some of us don't live in third world countries like where ever it is you are where you need to walk places.

krooj 5y ago

It's not the point - your body is built to walk. There are so many things that go wrong when you cease to walk: loss of core strength which results in a propensity to herniated discs and other spinal/neurological problems, circulatory issues due to the venous pumps of your calf muscles not working as they were designed, etc... The human body is literally designed for walking - not running, cycling, swimming, lifting - walking.

anthonypasq 5y ago
wtf does this mean? the human body is absolutely designed to run
- j3s 5y ago
  it is not designed at all. we evolved doing a lot of both - but throughout history, people have walked a _lot_ more than people have ran.
  - maerF0x0 5y ago
    perhaps parent commenter meant this? https://martinfowler.com/tags/evolutionary%20design.html https://martinfowler.com/tags/evolutionary%20design.html It's become pretty boring to see so many HN threads devolve into people nitpicking a single word in their post.
  - anthonypasq 5y ago
    well despite that fact that nothing about humans was "designed", humans are quite literally the best long distance runners in the animal kingdom. Its one of the only physical things we are actually elite at. We are weak and slow but we can run forever. most early hunting was by running animals to exhaustion. The fact we are bipedal and have very efficient heat dispersion (sweating) all point to the fact that we were meant to run.
    - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
      > most early hunting was by running animals to exhaustion. Seems like a poor way to go about it to be honest. Sure you just ran that gazelle down over 20 miles, but now you're 20 miles from home and have to carry a gazelle back.

notacoward 5y ago

> Why not just like, exercise properly? Why do you think walking isn't exercising properly? Exercise doesn't have to be weight-bearing or high-intensity to count. In fact, since those types of exercise increase injury risk, moderate exercise is probably better. Study after study after study - which I can cite just as soon as you cite some of your own - shows that walking or similar exercise captures practically all of health benefits without any risk (even to those who are older or who have already had heart attacks etc.) and with more likelihood of people sticking to it. Why go harder? And yes, when you dismiss walking as not exercising properly you are suggesting that.

generalenvelope 5y ago
> Why go harder? Because there's a dose dependent relationship between aerobic activity and positive health outcomes - the more you do, the more you get - and aerobics that are more intense than walking provide more "bang for back". And because there are unique benefits to weight bearing activities. Strengthening your muscles, for example, improves your ability to handle your body in space and reduces risk of falls, in addition to increasing bone density, which reduces severity of such injury from any falls. Sarcopenia (loss of muscle mass) is associated with significantly worse mortality when in the hospital. Having strength and confidence in your body improves quality of life through enabling you to keep up with physical tasks as you age. Reinforcing that movement is safe, especially loaded movement, is associated with better pain outcomes. Exercise does not have to be weight bearing or high-intensity. But if you are able and interested in your health, you should do those things. I only agree with your implication re:injury risk in the sense that lifting something up is inherently more dangerous than not because there is more load involved. This is a nonsensical reason to only walk, as humans adapt well to loading given reasonable fatigue and load management. Most people should not be concerned about any increased injury risk - but you should always consult with your doctor. See the physical activity guidelines for Americans: https://health.gov/sites/default/files/2019-09/Physical_Activity_Guidelines_2nd_edition.pdf https://health.gov/sites/default/files/2019-09/Physical_Acti... (There's lots of evidence provided).
- notacoward 5y ago