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Well USSR is as dead as russian soldier somewhere in muddy Ukraine. There were good reasons why it broke down, and those reasons are still present. Its plain si

Well USSR is as dead as russian soldier somewhere in muddy Ukraine. There were good reasons why it broke down, and those reasons are still present. Its plain simple - nobody sane, moral and free wants to be in pact with russia. Who remains are dictators, bullies and murderers. Thank god Trump didn't succeed in effectively disbanding Nato. Imagine what Europe would look like now if that happened (as Bolton mentioned in cca 2018).

ericmay 5y ago
Which we know, but apparently Putin doesn't. I think in one of his writings or a public speaking engagement he said "They're (Ukrainians) Russian even if they don't know it".
- danaris 5y ago
  I read an article recently—which I'm afraid I can't find anymore—that posited that part of what's going on is that Putin, and some of the rest of Russia, has a rather surprisingly expansive view of what it means to be "Russian", combined with the belief that if one is, by that definition, Russian, it is good and right to be part of Mother Russia. It also pointed out that by extension, this means that anyone in Ukraine who does not believe that they are Russian (and thus does not want to be part of Russia) is either effectively insane, or some kind of seditious traitor (I don't remember the exact way that logic went in the article at this point). I don't know to what extent what it described is true (my guess is "somewhat, but not necessarily absolutely"), but it does seem to help explain some of what's going on.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    I agree and this is what I've read and listened to as well. (1) Putin tell us this is the case in his spoken words and in his written words and actions. From an economic standpoint, or the standpoint that war is bad and should be avoided this obviously looks insane to you and I. But if you have different motivations, such as you and others described, it could look perfectly rational. It's all about the parameter space you operate in that determines your actions. (1) Ezra Klein has some fantastic podcast episodes about this - let me know if you'd like a suggestion or two
flavius29663 5y ago
> Thank god Trump didn't succeed in effectively disbanding Nato. Imagine what Europe would look like now if that happened (as Bolton mentioned in cca 2018). This take bothers me, it's a sound bite repeated at nauseam with no backing what so ever. As a Romanian, I kept a close watch on US politics in Eastern Europe. Nothing that Trump did was pointing to disbanding NATO, on the contrary, he increased the US presence in Eastern Europe and was tougher on Putin than Obama was. Why do you think Russia-haters Poland began to like the US so much under Trump? https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/01/12/poland-the-only-european-country-in-which-a-majority-have-confidence-in-trump/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/01/12/poland-the-only-europ... I feel like this is like a propaganda take: he forced countries to increase NATO spending, but somehow he wanted to weaken NATO? He wanted Germany and Europe off of Russian gas, even blocking Nord Stream2 (upsetting the Germans), but somehow he was working for Putin? Btw, Biden unblocked NS2 in his first week in office, for no good reason. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5MJEMHZZsI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5MJEMHZZsI
- ericmay 5y ago
  Truth is somewhere around here, I'm not sure where exactly: "Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Current and former officials who support the alliance said they feared Mr. Trump could return to his threat as allied military spending continued to lag behind the goals the president had set. In the days around a tumultuous NATO summit meeting last summer, they said, Mr. Trump told his top national security officials that he did not see the point of the military alliance, which he presented as a drain on the United States" I'd say ultimately whether this was some sort of good-natured negotiating tactic with European allies or not, Trump lost enough credibility that his motives are/were seriously concerning and questionable. This didn't come from nowhere. > He wanted Germany and Europe off of Russian gas Maybe but again I think the motives are questionable. Did he want this because he spent years antagonizing Europe and decided that it made sense for oil and natural gas companies who donated to his campaign to get in on the fun by selling American gas to Europe, or because he had a genuine concern for geopolitical interests and saw how Putin was acting? I'm sure you can understand that many don't really trust Trump or his motivations to do anything. For example, was he advocating for getting Germany and Europe off of Russian gas and on to American gas, or did he also advocate for nuclear power and renewables (both, not just one of those)? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/nato-president-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/nato-presiden...

ericmay 5y ago

Which we know, but apparently Putin doesn't. I think in one of his writings or a public speaking engagement he said "They're (Ukrainians) Russian even if they don't know it".

danaris 5y ago
I read an article recently—which I'm afraid I can't find anymore—that posited that part of what's going on is that Putin, and some of the rest of Russia, has a rather surprisingly expansive view of what it means to be "Russian", combined with the belief that if one is, by that definition, Russian, it is good and right to be part of Mother Russia. It also pointed out that by extension, this means that anyone in Ukraine who does not believe that they are Russian (and thus does not want to be part of Russia) is either effectively insane, or some kind of seditious traitor (I don't remember the exact way that logic went in the article at this point). I don't know to what extent what it described is true (my guess is "somewhat, but not necessarily absolutely"), but it does seem to help explain some of what's going on.
- ericmay 5y ago
  I agree and this is what I've read and listened to as well. (1) Putin tell us this is the case in his spoken words and in his written words and actions. From an economic standpoint, or the standpoint that war is bad and should be avoided this obviously looks insane to you and I. But if you have different motivations, such as you and others described, it could look perfectly rational. It's all about the parameter space you operate in that determines your actions. (1) Ezra Klein has some fantastic podcast episodes about this - let me know if you'd like a suggestion or two

flavius29663 5y ago

> Thank god Trump didn't succeed in effectively disbanding Nato. Imagine what Europe would look like now if that happened (as Bolton mentioned in cca 2018). This take bothers me, it's a sound bite repeated at nauseam with no backing what so ever. As a Romanian, I kept a close watch on US politics in Eastern Europe. Nothing that Trump did was pointing to disbanding NATO, on the contrary, he increased the US presence in Eastern Europe and was tougher on Putin than Obama was. Why do you think Russia-haters Poland began to like the US so much under Trump? https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/01/12/poland-the-only-european-country-in-which-a-majority-have-confidence-in-trump/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/01/12/poland-the-only-europ... I feel like this is like a propaganda take: he forced countries to increase NATO spending, but somehow he wanted to weaken NATO? He wanted Germany and Europe off of Russian gas, even blocking Nord Stream2 (upsetting the Germans), but somehow he was working for Putin? Btw, Biden unblocked NS2 in his first week in office, for no good reason. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5MJEMHZZsI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5MJEMHZZsI

ericmay 5y ago
Truth is somewhere around here, I'm not sure where exactly: "Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Current and former officials who support the alliance said they feared Mr. Trump could return to his threat as allied military spending continued to lag behind the goals the president had set. In the days around a tumultuous NATO summit meeting last summer, they said, Mr. Trump told his top national security officials that he did not see the point of the military alliance, which he presented as a drain on the United States" I'd say ultimately whether this was some sort of good-natured negotiating tactic with European allies or not, Trump lost enough credibility that his motives are/were seriously concerning and questionable. This didn't come from nowhere. > He wanted Germany and Europe off of Russian gas Maybe but again I think the motives are questionable. Did he want this because he spent years antagonizing Europe and decided that it made sense for oil and natural gas companies who donated to his campaign to get in on the fun by selling American gas to Europe, or because he had a genuine concern for geopolitical interests and saw how Putin was acting? I'm sure you can understand that many don't really trust Trump or his motivations to do anything. For example, was he advocating for getting Germany and Europe off of Russian gas and on to American gas, or did he also advocate for nuclear power and renewables (both, not just one of those)? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/nato-president-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/nato-presiden...