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This is a fair point - that people are seeing different things in Russia and Ukraine. But can we reflect for a second that we are all in the same boat? We don

This is a fair point - that people are seeing different things in Russia and Ukraine. But can we reflect for a second that we are all in the same boat? We don't know what we are presented on screens is real either. Who's to say we are receiving the truth? Are our leaders beneficent? I think not. We are all in the same boat. We are all propagandised. We don't even know what is going on anywhere else, except for what we are able to personally verify. And even that is limited by how we are able to explain and frame our experience!

Fervicus 5y ago
Great point. In my circles I have far too often seen people criticizing other governments of propaganda, while also accepting the narratives we live in without question.
ajross 5y ago
An important distinction is that if I want to find foreign spin in the west, I can do so trivially and legally and share it with anyone I want. And the worst punishment I will see is a downvote. The core claim in the liked article isn't about content moderation, it's about censorship. And it's really upsetting to see the extent to which HN commenters want to conflate them.
- verisimi 5y ago
  Content moderation is de facto censorship. If someone is sharing a honestly held opinion, not threatening anyone - that should be allowed. You seem to be unaware of the level of censorship that goes on here, youtube, twitter, etc, etc. It is called breaking community guidelines, de-platforming, shadow banning, hate-speech, etc. Do you remember when Alex Jones was removed from everywhere in a couple of days? Regardless of what you think, should he be allowed a voice? All of this is taking place outside of the legal system btw. Which is meant to establish people's right to free speech.
  - Tozen 5y ago
    Very good points. Including the shadow banning that takes place here and everywhere. Different opinions and views are increasingly censored by those that are empowered. "Power corrupts". Unless a fair system is in place of checks and balances, there will be those that will abuse it whenever they can get away with it.
  - krapp 5y ago
    >Do you remember when Alex Jones was removed from everywhere in a couple of days? Regardless of what you think, should he be allowed a voice? Alex Jones has a voice, it just isn't on mainstream platforms.
    - verisimi 5y ago
      Is that not effectively censorship? Do you remember when Trump was banned from Twitter?!?
      - krapp 5y ago
        It is not effectively censorship. Censorship is not effective if it merely makes communication slightly less convenient. >Do you remember when Trump was banned from Twitter?!? Yes, and he deserved it. And yet everything Donald Trump says and does still gets national press coverage, and he's starting his own social media platform with a backlog of millions of followers. It's garbage, but that isn't censorship's fault. We should all wish to be so censored.
        verisimi 5y ago
        > We should all wish to be so censored. Good god. Do you ever think you're part of the problem? Should we censor people who have a different opinion?
        krapp 5y ago
        Being banned from Twitter isn't censorship. Donald Trump wasn't "censored" for having a different opinion. Nor was Donald Trump "censored" in any way that actually interfered with or hindered his ability to communicate. People really should stop picking Trump as an example of a martyr to the cause of free speech, he's a really bad one. I know they want the narrative to be that "cancel culture" was just so powerful that it silenced a sitting President but it's just not working out that way.

Fervicus 5y ago

Great point. In my circles I have far too often seen people criticizing other governments of propaganda, while also accepting the narratives we live in without question.

ajross 5y ago

An important distinction is that if I want to find foreign spin in the west, I can do so trivially and legally and share it with anyone I want. And the worst punishment I will see is a downvote. The core claim in the liked article isn't about content moderation, it's about censorship. And it's really upsetting to see the extent to which HN commenters want to conflate them.

verisimi 5y ago
Content moderation is de facto censorship. If someone is sharing a honestly held opinion, not threatening anyone - that should be allowed. You seem to be unaware of the level of censorship that goes on here, youtube, twitter, etc, etc. It is called breaking community guidelines, de-platforming, shadow banning, hate-speech, etc. Do you remember when Alex Jones was removed from everywhere in a couple of days? Regardless of what you think, should he be allowed a voice? All of this is taking place outside of the legal system btw. Which is meant to establish people's right to free speech.
- Tozen 5y ago
  Very good points. Including the shadow banning that takes place here and everywhere. Different opinions and views are increasingly censored by those that are empowered. "Power corrupts". Unless a fair system is in place of checks and balances, there will be those that will abuse it whenever they can get away with it.
- krapp 5y ago
  >Do you remember when Alex Jones was removed from everywhere in a couple of days? Regardless of what you think, should he be allowed a voice? Alex Jones has a voice, it just isn't on mainstream platforms.
  - verisimi 5y ago
    Is that not effectively censorship? Do you remember when Trump was banned from Twitter?!?
    - krapp 5y ago
      It is not effectively censorship. Censorship is not effective if it merely makes communication slightly less convenient. >Do you remember when Trump was banned from Twitter?!? Yes, and he deserved it. And yet everything Donald Trump says and does still gets national press coverage, and he's starting his own social media platform with a backlog of millions of followers. It's garbage, but that isn't censorship's fault. We should all wish to be so censored.
      - verisimi 5y ago
        > We should all wish to be so censored. Good god. Do you ever think you're part of the problem? Should we censor people who have a different opinion?
        krapp 5y ago
        Being banned from Twitter isn't censorship. Donald Trump wasn't "censored" for having a different opinion. Nor was Donald Trump "censored" in any way that actually interfered with or hindered his ability to communicate. People really should stop picking Trump as an example of a martyr to the cause of free speech, he's a really bad one. I know they want the narrative to be that "cancel culture" was just so powerful that it silenced a sitting President but it's just not working out that way.