4 ms·

But in Switzerland the population voted against nuclear energy, and with that we "the people" are as stupid as the green party, right?

by nix23 5y ago

baq 5y ago
somebody convinced the Swiss that benefits are not worth the risk and/or costs; it's quite clear now that some of the risk of being reliant on gas was... understated. the greens, for all my love of the environment for the sake of my grandkids, are blind to geopolitics, and I used to think this is just naivety; I'm starting to doubt that considering the extent of FSB's and GRU's influence.
recuter 5y ago
Yes.
archerx 5y ago
>'and with that we "the people" are as stupid as the green party, right?' Yes.
- nix23 5y ago
  But we can import it from france and we have hydro, why even care about the nuclear-waste and all the negative sides of it. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-get-75--of-power-from-renewable-sources/46016854 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-get-75--of-power-from-ren...
  - recuter 5y ago
    Nuclear Power - Bad from inside Switzerland, Okie Dokie from France. Their reactor in Bugey is like 200km from the one you're shutting down early. Man.. it would sure be funny if France elected some eccentric far right character for additional excitement.
    - nix23 5y ago
      >Okie Dokie for France. Yes why not? They take the risk, we pay them for. >eccentric far right character for additional excitement. Is the far right not happy making money?
      - recuter 5y ago
        Your plan is to sit in the dark while the radiation drifts across the imaginary line that is your border? Well, at least you're honest. Here I thought we were concerned about going green and the planet and such. > Is the far right not happy making money? You know Mr Putin could have just stayed on the throne collecting hundreds of billions a year doing nothing. Nord Stream 2 was weeks away from being flipped on, this was boom times for Russia.
        nix23 5y ago
        >Your plan is to sit in the dark while the radiation drifts across the imaginary line that is your border? You know how small Switzerland is? One accident and whole Switzerland could be polluted at once. >You know Mr Putin could have just stayed Not sure how that has anything todo with a far right french politician. >Nord Stream 2 was weeks away from being flipped on And would have been probably flipped off, after what happened.
        recuter 5y ago
        > You know how small Switzerland is? One accident and whole Switzerland could be polluted at once. Well precisely. And Bugey is so close might as well be in Switzerland, heh. Atoms don't know about our imaginary lines. > And would have been probably flipped off, after what happened. I'm saying instead of collecting riches he opted to invade. It is a bummer but sometimes people are not rational actors, even in Europe it turns out. > Not sure how that has anything todo with a far right french politician. Generally far right movements have an affinity with Russia/Putin. You don't need to believe some unproven (or in some cases proven) theory about them being bankrolled by him. Le Pen happens to have known ties but you can disregard this completely if you prefer. What I think you would find very interesting and somewhat alarming is the attitudes and political winds currently blowing even in your civilized neighbor France. Ask a French person first hand to lay it out. It is relevant to your interests, especially now that you depend on them for energy. I know, fortress Switzerland, not used to this, but it is an important lesson to learn right now. Please don't repeat the mistakes of Germans.
  - archerx 5y ago
    Why should we be dependent on France? Nuclear waste is a boogie man to scare hippies at night, almost 96% of fuel rods can be recycled and fuel rods have a life cycle of 5-10 years while not needing that many to run a reactor. We could be researching and investing in modern nuclear tech that solve these problems until fusion is viable. Also with petrol there was a lot of waste but we learned to process it and turn it into a valuable resource, maybe the same could happen for nuclear. Hydro while interesting it is awful for the environment.
    - nix23 5y ago
      >Why should we be dependent on France? Because Switzerland is dependent on like everything? The same could be said about steel, food, chips, chemicals, minerals, fertilizer, oils, gas...just about everything, yes we produce stuff but nearly nothing from the ground up, with the exception of Alp-Cheese and Buendnerfleisch ;) >Hydro while interesting it is awful for the environment. Switzerland then must have terrible environmental problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Switzerland high share of hydroelectricity (59.6%)
saiya-jin 5y ago
People can be easily scared into doing very stupid things long term. Fear is by far the easiest way to manipulate, look at brexit, Trump etc. Swiss are generally quite smart but have emotions just like everybody else, even if it may not seem so upon first encounter. From what I recall they already buy LNG mainly from US so at least this part is not so bad re current situation.

But in Switzerland the population voted against nuclear energy, and with that we "the people" are as stupid as the green party, right?

by nix23 5y ago

But in Switzerland the population voted against nuclear energy, and with that we "the people" are as stupid as the green party, right?

baq 5y ago

somebody convinced the Swiss that benefits are not worth the risk and/or costs; it's quite clear now that some of the risk of being reliant on gas was... understated. the greens, for all my love of the environment for the sake of my grandkids, are blind to geopolitics, and I used to think this is just naivety; I'm starting to doubt that considering the extent of FSB's and GRU's influence.

recuter 5y ago

Yes.

archerx 5y ago

>'and with that we "the people" are as stupid as the green party, right?' Yes.

nix23 5y ago
But we can import it from france and we have hydro, why even care about the nuclear-waste and all the negative sides of it. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-get-75--of-power-from-renewable-sources/46016854 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-get-75--of-power-from-ren...
- recuter 5y ago
  Nuclear Power - Bad from inside Switzerland, Okie Dokie from France. Their reactor in Bugey is like 200km from the one you're shutting down early. Man.. it would sure be funny if France elected some eccentric far right character for additional excitement.
  - nix23 5y ago
    >Okie Dokie for France. Yes why not? They take the risk, we pay them for. >eccentric far right character for additional excitement. Is the far right not happy making money?
    - recuter 5y ago
      Your plan is to sit in the dark while the radiation drifts across the imaginary line that is your border? Well, at least you're honest. Here I thought we were concerned about going green and the planet and such. > Is the far right not happy making money? You know Mr Putin could have just stayed on the throne collecting hundreds of billions a year doing nothing. Nord Stream 2 was weeks away from being flipped on, this was boom times for Russia.
      - nix23 5y ago
        >Your plan is to sit in the dark while the radiation drifts across the imaginary line that is your border? You know how small Switzerland is? One accident and whole Switzerland could be polluted at once. >You know Mr Putin could have just stayed Not sure how that has anything todo with a far right french politician. >Nord Stream 2 was weeks away from being flipped on And would have been probably flipped off, after what happened.
        recuter 5y ago
        > You know how small Switzerland is? One accident and whole Switzerland could be polluted at once. Well precisely. And Bugey is so close might as well be in Switzerland, heh. Atoms don't know about our imaginary lines. > And would have been probably flipped off, after what happened. I'm saying instead of collecting riches he opted to invade. It is a bummer but sometimes people are not rational actors, even in Europe it turns out. > Not sure how that has anything todo with a far right french politician. Generally far right movements have an affinity with Russia/Putin. You don't need to believe some unproven (or in some cases proven) theory about them being bankrolled by him. Le Pen happens to have known ties but you can disregard this completely if you prefer. What I think you would find very interesting and somewhat alarming is the attitudes and political winds currently blowing even in your civilized neighbor France. Ask a French person first hand to lay it out. It is relevant to your interests, especially now that you depend on them for energy. I know, fortress Switzerland, not used to this, but it is an important lesson to learn right now. Please don't repeat the mistakes of Germans.
- archerx 5y ago
  Why should we be dependent on France? Nuclear waste is a boogie man to scare hippies at night, almost 96% of fuel rods can be recycled and fuel rods have a life cycle of 5-10 years while not needing that many to run a reactor. We could be researching and investing in modern nuclear tech that solve these problems until fusion is viable. Also with petrol there was a lot of waste but we learned to process it and turn it into a valuable resource, maybe the same could happen for nuclear. Hydro while interesting it is awful for the environment.
  - nix23 5y ago
    >Why should we be dependent on France? Because Switzerland is dependent on like everything? The same could be said about steel, food, chips, chemicals, minerals, fertilizer, oils, gas...just about everything, yes we produce stuff but nearly nothing from the ground up, with the exception of Alp-Cheese and Buendnerfleisch ;) >Hydro while interesting it is awful for the environment. Switzerland then must have terrible environmental problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Switzerland high share of hydroelectricity (59.6%)

saiya-jin 5y ago

People can be easily scared into doing very stupid things long term. Fear is by far the easiest way to manipulate, look at brexit, Trump etc. Swiss are generally quite smart but have emotions just like everybody else, even if it may not seem so upon first encounter. From what I recall they already buy LNG mainly from US so at least this part is not so bad re current situation.