5 ms·

Stripe updates pricing on cross-border fees between UK and EU

63 points by aosaigh 5y ago

I just got an email from Stripe: --- Hello, We’re writing to let you know that we’re making some changes to cross-border fees in Europe and the UK starting 1st July 2022. Based on your Stripe transaction history, this change won’t impact [Company], and all other pricing will remain the same. You can review the most up to date fees for international transactions on our pricing page. You can contact us, and find more details about this pricing update, managing or closing your account, or any other next steps, on our dedicated support page. - The Stripe team --- Of course they don't actually mention what the changes are, but looking at the pricing page [0], it seems like there is now an additional 1.1% (making it 2.5% in total) for EU companies taking UK payments and for UK companies taking EU payments. I imagine this is related to Visa and Mastercard price increases post-Brexit? [1] [0] https://stripe.com/gb/pricing https://stripe.com/gb/pricing [1] https://www.ft.com/content/4820b619-4d35-4c6a-8523-fc685c047374 https://www.ft.com/content/4820b619-4d35-4c6a-8523-fc685c047...

sofixa 5y ago
That's all that sweet Brexit dividend the hard leavers talked about. Nobody said it'd be for the people.
- kypro 5y ago
  It amazes me some people would care more about their national sovereignty and democracy than the efficiency of global capitalism.
  - raverbashing 5y ago
    "cares" Except whenever they mention their concerns it's usually a) wrong b) not relevant or c) missing the context of how modern commerce works. Just as the issue with Stripe payments show. Just ask around how many people think Brexit would mean less south-asians in the UK. Or ask them where does their food comes from. There's a difference between "caring" about something and thinking they have the best solutions for that.
alibarber 5y ago
I naively thought that the likes of Stripe existed in order to abstract away this issue. Sort of like how TransferWise will give you a US, UK, EU, and others, account number. If I want to send Euros to GB, simply pay the local EU account number for free, then cash out in the UK for a minimal TransferWise fee (up to hundredths of the fee for sending it via the banks themselves). So stripe here would charge an EU card from its EU entity, US from the US, GB from GB etc etc, regardless of where the merchant is actually located. Maybe there is something fundamentally different with the workings of Visa / MC payments and clearing though that means this is not possible?
- lapser 5y ago
  They've probably been eating up the Visa/MC cross border payment increases until now, and now they're starting to charge for that too.
- plantain 5y ago
  I wish - as an Australian company predominantly selling to US/EU, I pay 3% on almost all transactions...
- traceroute66 5y ago
  TransferWise are not a bank, they are an Electronic Money Institution. Different kettle of fish. The accounts they give you are virtual accounts, not a real bank account. TransferWise also have larger profit margins than you think, both explicit and implicit by playing funny games cherry-picking rates etc. So for both of the above reasons, this is why TransferWise can do what they do about giving people accounts cross-border. A lot (most) of it is legal flexibility, the rest is by eating the costs. There are very few UK banks left that will give you a true EUR account. Financial services were not part of the Brexit "deal". Which is why UK peeps can't open bank accounts in Europe and vice-versa, too many unaddressed regulatory issues. Cross-border card fees may well be a similar kettle of fish to the phone roaming charges, i.e. there was protection under EU, but now the UK is outside of the EU it's dog eat dog. Its a bit like why Amazon UK stopped accepting Visa for a while. Because post-Brexit Visa hiked their rates mostly just because they could. I'm afraid that given the hard brexit that the UK government has chosen, the UK is only going to see a lot more of this. Brexit itself was bad enough, a dogged persuit of the hard form is, to put it politely, not exactly helping matters.
lapser 5y ago
Brexit keeps on giving. Snark aside, this will likely just be pushed forward to customers sadly. Combined with the ever increasing prices in the UK, this is will only exacerbate the issues.
- swarnie 5y ago
  If we ignore Brexit for a moment, inflation in the UK is about the same as in the EU and USA, if not better.
  - spinningslate 5y ago
    but why should we ignore brexit? The pricing has gone from a single rate for all EU+UK payments, to cross EU-UK being 0.9% more than intra-EU. Inflation doesn't seem relevant. Whereas implementing a policy that makes international trade harder, with countries that were previously in the same trading bloc, seems entirely pertinent.
    - swarnie 5y ago
      > Inflation doesn't seem relevant. We are literally talking about inflation in this chain....
      - Dayshine 5y ago
        No, you're talking about inflation, we're talking about increasing prices. Why do you think they're the same? Electronic devices aren't priced like bread.
  - s_dev 5y ago
    > inflation in the UK is about the same as in the EU and USA, if not better. If the policy is working so well why not pursue the trend and put up more trade barriers to improve your economy.
m00dy 5y ago
%3 is just too much. Stablecoins with very low transactions fees fix this.
- _3u10 5y ago
  so does bumping your price 1% and you don’t lose 99.999% of your customer base.
laurent123456 5y ago
> Of course they don't actually mention what the changes are That's because you are not affected by this changes. They are actually very transparent about it. In my case, since I do cross-border business, they've provided all the details in the email: * * * > As a result of the UK leaving the EU, major card networks now > consider transactions between the UK and European Economic Area > (EEA) to be cross-border. In light of this, we will be making some > changes to fees between Europe and the UK on your account, > starting 1 July 2022. > > Your current Stripe fees are: > > - 1.4% + £0.20 on card transactions for all of Europe, including the UK > - 2.9% + £0.20 on international card transactions > > Your new Stripe fees will be: > > - 1.4% + £0.20 on domestic card transactions in the UK > - 2.5% + £0.20 on card transactions between the UK and the EEA > - 2.9% + £0.20 on other international card transactions
- supert56 5y ago
  Brilliant, increased fees for me. Yet another “success” for Brexit
- aosaigh 5y ago
  Thanks for posting, that makes sense.
maxehmookau 5y ago
Yet those who were responsible for pushing the narrative of a "Brexit dividend" will remain gleefully quiet on this issue. It's maddening and on top of inflation, it's just another kick in the teeth.
recuter 5y ago
One would almost think it is worth setting up a US/UK/EU subsidiary structure and funnel payments optimally to each one using Stripe or whomever. Some services in each of these territories charge just the interchange fee. Like: https://staxpayments.com/pricing/ https://staxpayments.com/pricing/ https://www.adyen.com/blog/interchange-fees-explained https://www.adyen.com/blog/interchange-fees-explained > On average, interchange fees are around 0.3-0.4% of the transaction amount in Europe and 2% in the US.
erulabs 5y ago
All these posts like "See what Brexit (unintentionally) did!?" This is exactly the point of nationalistic policies. Make foreign trade more expensive and you're effectively subsidizing your national industries. This reminds me of how the US spent 2 decades moving factories overseas while aiming at becoming a white collar economy. When the factory jobs did finally disappear, US politicians did the "Surprised Picachu" face at the situation they explicitly aimed at creating, and then successfully created. To express this ironic economic situation in millennial: https://i.imgflip.com/6bhb1y.jpg https://i.imgflip.com/6bhb1y.jpg
- aosaigh 5y ago
  For the record, this isn't intended as a "see what Brexit did" post, and posting "the situation in millennial" is childish and patronizing.
  - erulabs 5y ago
    Well, childish or patronizing - can it be both? I am a millennial, so perhaps it's childish. Anyways, if summarizing an extremely complex economic situation with a ~10 word meme is childish, I'm okay with that.

63 points by aosaigh 5y ago

sofixa 5y ago

That's all that sweet Brexit dividend the hard leavers talked about. Nobody said it'd be for the people.

kypro 5y ago
It amazes me some people would care more about their national sovereignty and democracy than the efficiency of global capitalism.
- raverbashing 5y ago
  "cares" Except whenever they mention their concerns it's usually a) wrong b) not relevant or c) missing the context of how modern commerce works. Just as the issue with Stripe payments show. Just ask around how many people think Brexit would mean less south-asians in the UK. Or ask them where does their food comes from. There's a difference between "caring" about something and thinking they have the best solutions for that.

alibarber 5y ago

I naively thought that the likes of Stripe existed in order to abstract away this issue. Sort of like how TransferWise will give you a US, UK, EU, and others, account number. If I want to send Euros to GB, simply pay the local EU account number for free, then cash out in the UK for a minimal TransferWise fee (up to hundredths of the fee for sending it via the banks themselves). So stripe here would charge an EU card from its EU entity, US from the US, GB from GB etc etc, regardless of where the merchant is actually located. Maybe there is something fundamentally different with the workings of Visa / MC payments and clearing though that means this is not possible?

lapser 5y ago
They've probably been eating up the Visa/MC cross border payment increases until now, and now they're starting to charge for that too.
plantain 5y ago
I wish - as an Australian company predominantly selling to US/EU, I pay 3% on almost all transactions...
traceroute66 5y ago
TransferWise are not a bank, they are an Electronic Money Institution. Different kettle of fish. The accounts they give you are virtual accounts, not a real bank account. TransferWise also have larger profit margins than you think, both explicit and implicit by playing funny games cherry-picking rates etc. So for both of the above reasons, this is why TransferWise can do what they do about giving people accounts cross-border. A lot (most) of it is legal flexibility, the rest is by eating the costs. There are very few UK banks left that will give you a true EUR account. Financial services were not part of the Brexit "deal". Which is why UK peeps can't open bank accounts in Europe and vice-versa, too many unaddressed regulatory issues. Cross-border card fees may well be a similar kettle of fish to the phone roaming charges, i.e. there was protection under EU, but now the UK is outside of the EU it's dog eat dog. Its a bit like why Amazon UK stopped accepting Visa for a while. Because post-Brexit Visa hiked their rates mostly just because they could. I'm afraid that given the hard brexit that the UK government has chosen, the UK is only going to see a lot more of this. Brexit itself was bad enough, a dogged persuit of the hard form is, to put it politely, not exactly helping matters.

lapser 5y ago

Brexit keeps on giving. Snark aside, this will likely just be pushed forward to customers sadly. Combined with the ever increasing prices in the UK, this is will only exacerbate the issues.

swarnie 5y ago
If we ignore Brexit for a moment, inflation in the UK is about the same as in the EU and USA, if not better.
- spinningslate 5y ago
  but why should we ignore brexit? The pricing has gone from a single rate for all EU+UK payments, to cross EU-UK being 0.9% more than intra-EU. Inflation doesn't seem relevant. Whereas implementing a policy that makes international trade harder, with countries that were previously in the same trading bloc, seems entirely pertinent.
  - swarnie 5y ago
    > Inflation doesn't seem relevant. We are literally talking about inflation in this chain....
    - Dayshine 5y ago
      No, you're talking about inflation, we're talking about increasing prices. Why do you think they're the same? Electronic devices aren't priced like bread.
- s_dev 5y ago
  > inflation in the UK is about the same as in the EU and USA, if not better. If the policy is working so well why not pursue the trend and put up more trade barriers to improve your economy.

m00dy 5y ago

%3 is just too much. Stablecoins with very low transactions fees fix this.

_3u10 5y ago
so does bumping your price 1% and you don’t lose 99.999% of your customer base.

laurent123456 5y ago

> Of course they don't actually mention what the changes are That's because you are not affected by this changes. They are actually very transparent about it. In my case, since I do cross-border business, they've provided all the details in the email: * * * > As a result of the UK leaving the EU, major card networks now > consider transactions between the UK and European Economic Area > (EEA) to be cross-border. In light of this, we will be making some > changes to fees between Europe and the UK on your account, > starting 1 July 2022. > > Your current Stripe fees are: > > - 1.4% + £0.20 on card transactions for all of Europe, including the UK > - 2.9% + £0.20 on international card transactions > > Your new Stripe fees will be: > > - 1.4% + £0.20 on domestic card transactions in the UK > - 2.5% + £0.20 on card transactions between the UK and the EEA > - 2.9% + £0.20 on other international card transactions

supert56 5y ago
Brilliant, increased fees for me. Yet another “success” for Brexit
aosaigh 5y ago
Thanks for posting, that makes sense.

maxehmookau 5y ago

Yet those who were responsible for pushing the narrative of a "Brexit dividend" will remain gleefully quiet on this issue. It's maddening and on top of inflation, it's just another kick in the teeth.

recuter 5y ago

One would almost think it is worth setting up a US/UK/EU subsidiary structure and funnel payments optimally to each one using Stripe or whomever. Some services in each of these territories charge just the interchange fee. Like: https://staxpayments.com/pricing/ https://staxpayments.com/pricing/ https://www.adyen.com/blog/interchange-fees-explained https://www.adyen.com/blog/interchange-fees-explained > On average, interchange fees are around 0.3-0.4% of the transaction amount in Europe and 2% in the US.

erulabs 5y ago

All these posts like "See what Brexit (unintentionally) did!?" This is exactly the point of nationalistic policies. Make foreign trade more expensive and you're effectively subsidizing your national industries. This reminds me of how the US spent 2 decades moving factories overseas while aiming at becoming a white collar economy. When the factory jobs did finally disappear, US politicians did the "Surprised Picachu" face at the situation they explicitly aimed at creating, and then successfully created. To express this ironic economic situation in millennial: https://i.imgflip.com/6bhb1y.jpg https://i.imgflip.com/6bhb1y.jpg

aosaigh 5y ago
For the record, this isn't intended as a "see what Brexit did" post, and posting "the situation in millennial" is childish and patronizing.
- erulabs 5y ago
  Well, childish or patronizing - can it be both? I am a millennial, so perhaps it's childish. Anyways, if summarizing an extremely complex economic situation with a ~10 word meme is childish, I'm okay with that.