7 ms·

I don’t get why are programmers so obsessed with the tools they use for the job? More than any profession

alx__ 5y ago
Obsession with the tools is part of every interest/job/hobby! There's always someone who thinks: "I could make this better". Some of them even try to. Emphasis on try :)
- astrange 5y ago
  Rich amateur photographers are a lot more concerned with their tools than professionals are, and about different parts of the toolset too.
stuu99 5y ago
exdsq 5y ago
You should see the arguments gardeners can get into over lawnmowers
- Agentlien 5y ago
  I am only moderately into gardening and somehow I've ended up with three lawnmowers.
rileyphone 5y ago
Because languages are not tools, but rather media. They are the basis for the structured thought that unveils, as such their form and function is critical to the process of programming.
burnished 5y ago
You should check out the comment section of a woodcrafting (or the like) Youtube channel. I think 'tool obsession' is probably a personality trait and one you're more likely to see in your day to day in programmers than in other crafters due to proximity to the internet. Oh, sewing rooms are another good hit for that as well.
- omniscient_oce 5y ago
  In Table Tennis we call it "being an EJ" or "EJ-ing" where EJ stands for Equipment Junkie.
  - burnished 5y ago
    ..what kind of equipment do you even get in Table Tennis? I understand there are different makes of paddles but I thought it was limited to a couple materials applied to one or both sides. If you don't mind I'd love to know more.
    - vasco 5y ago
      The first page of results for "table tennis ej" on Google has all the answers. I had no clue about it either.
    - sandos 5y ago
      The rubber and the wood (or other material) itself, that is enough for people to delve deep into. Different rubbers on different sides.
    - omniscient_oce 5y ago
      The wood part is called the 'blade' in English and there are MANY different brands and models. They come in either 5 ply or 7 ply, where it might be full (5 or 7) wood or 5 wood plies + 2 thin carbon wafers. I use a carbon blade (Viscaria) - they are more stiff with less vibration, or feedback, but generally have a higher speed ceiling and larger sweet spot at the expense of a little bit of control at lower speeds (gears). The other component of a setup is the rubbers, you can have one black rubber and one red rubber (although new colours are soon being made an official part of the sport) - generally they're split into two categories "tensors" and "tacky" or "chinese" rubbers and recently "hybrid" rubbers. Rubbers are comprised of a sponge and a top-sheet - which manufacturers can customise to produce different playing characteristics. Long story short: tensor rubbers historically were favoured by Europeans (on both sides, whereas Chinese would use a hard tacky rubber on forehand + softer tensor backhand) and are more elastic with built in catapult effect. They require less physical effort to produce good spin and speed. Tacky Chinese rubbers are very hard with a very tacky surface, the harder sponge makes them easier to control at low gears (close to the net for short game) and have great top-end spin as well as spin on serves. They require more physical exertion and efficient use of the body to use effectively (although there are also substances called "booster" which we apply to make hard tacky rubbers come alive). Hybrids are a sort of mixture of the two that have become popular with the new 40mm plastic ball and can be used on either side. Typically you will use a harder rubber on the forehand than on the backhand, but it's up to personal preference.
tikhonj 5y ago
Why are musicians so obsessed with their instruments? Just use the right tool for the right job, don't call yourself a "pianist" or a "drummer", call yourself a musician.
- TillE 5y ago
  Yeah semi-pro musicians are probably the worst. It's really easy to get obsessed with both accumulating shiny new (or vintage) toys, and tweaking your favorite instruments so they're set up exactly how you want.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  That is what being a music composer is all about actually, not siloing oneself in a instrument category.
- Rochus 5y ago
  Because it takes the fameous 10'000 hours to become a master?
- eternityforest 5y ago
  Playing an instrument is harder than any basic non-mathematical programming. It's almost shocking to finish a project, clock out, practice guitar a bit and realize the difficulty difference. Buying stuff on the other hand is very easy. Just like running is(I assume, having never seriously done any sports) way harder. Buying more crap and then not even using it is easy. Everyone always wants their fast instant gratification hits, regardless of hobby.
bobnamob 5y ago
As much as I think the other replies to this question hit the nail on the head, I think there’s more to it than just tool obsession. Software developers are in the fairly unique position where most of our tools are software defined. We are experts in the discipline required to improve our own day to day work lives. How many other professions have this liberty? Woodworking does to an extent, carpenters regularly make their own jigs and clamps but rarely venture into the realm of sharpened tools. Contrast this with anyone working in the medical or retail(?) industries. People working in these fields are close to powerless to improve the tools they use every day. Embrace the tool improvement life, there’s still a long way to go before software tooling is “finished”
- eternityforest 5y ago
  It's hard to tell what benefit there actually is from this kind of thing. There's definitely great new tools developed all the time, but most of them seem to be planned megaprojects. I've never seen a custom build system or VCS or personal/project specific tooling I'd want to use. Seems like most of it happens just cause devs enjoy it. Making your own clamps seems very much the same. The other reason is there's a real cult of assuming that minimal is always best, and devs resent using any tool that has more features than they absolutely need. They also resent any more opinionated structure than they need, even if it makes things safer and easier, because they seem to really enjoy blank canvas creativity.
- arduinomancer 5y ago
  Ya this is what I was thinking as well, the unique thing is that making the tools and doing the work are the exact same process Plus its just very easy to work on a tool, I don't need to go buy a bunch of materials or anything
carrolldunham 5y ago
I can't believe all the catty defensive replies. The answer is that programming is designing automation (automatic computation) and functionality of computers. So getting into that mindset naturally leads to "well, what If I can automate what I'm doing too? What if I can make a function that makes these functions?". Not to mention, a gardener isn't tempted to trim his rake into a better rake, because that wouldn't work - the tools are made by a different process than what they are used for. Not so in programming
linspace 5y ago
Aren't computers tool themselves? It's only natural people interested in computers are interested in tool making

Obsession with the tools is part of every interest/job/hobby! There's always someone who thinks: "I could make this better". Some of them even try to. Emphasis on try :)

astrange 5y ago
Rich amateur photographers are a lot more concerned with their tools than professionals are, and about different parts of the toolset too.

stuu99 5y ago

exdsq 5y ago

You should see the arguments gardeners can get into over lawnmowers

Agentlien 5y ago
I am only moderately into gardening and somehow I've ended up with three lawnmowers.

rileyphone 5y ago

Because languages are not tools, but rather media. They are the basis for the structured thought that unveils, as such their form and function is critical to the process of programming.

burnished 5y ago

You should check out the comment section of a woodcrafting (or the like) Youtube channel. I think 'tool obsession' is probably a personality trait and one you're more likely to see in your day to day in programmers than in other crafters due to proximity to the internet. Oh, sewing rooms are another good hit for that as well.

omniscient_oce 5y ago
In Table Tennis we call it "being an EJ" or "EJ-ing" where EJ stands for Equipment Junkie.
- burnished 5y ago
  ..what kind of equipment do you even get in Table Tennis? I understand there are different makes of paddles but I thought it was limited to a couple materials applied to one or both sides. If you don't mind I'd love to know more.
  - vasco 5y ago
    The first page of results for "table tennis ej" on Google has all the answers. I had no clue about it either.
  - sandos 5y ago
    The rubber and the wood (or other material) itself, that is enough for people to delve deep into. Different rubbers on different sides.
  - omniscient_oce 5y ago
    The wood part is called the 'blade' in English and there are MANY different brands and models. They come in either 5 ply or 7 ply, where it might be full (5 or 7) wood or 5 wood plies + 2 thin carbon wafers. I use a carbon blade (Viscaria) - they are more stiff with less vibration, or feedback, but generally have a higher speed ceiling and larger sweet spot at the expense of a little bit of control at lower speeds (gears). The other component of a setup is the rubbers, you can have one black rubber and one red rubber (although new colours are soon being made an official part of the sport) - generally they're split into two categories "tensors" and "tacky" or "chinese" rubbers and recently "hybrid" rubbers. Rubbers are comprised of a sponge and a top-sheet - which manufacturers can customise to produce different playing characteristics. Long story short: tensor rubbers historically were favoured by Europeans (on both sides, whereas Chinese would use a hard tacky rubber on forehand + softer tensor backhand) and are more elastic with built in catapult effect. They require less physical effort to produce good spin and speed. Tacky Chinese rubbers are very hard with a very tacky surface, the harder sponge makes them easier to control at low gears (close to the net for short game) and have great top-end spin as well as spin on serves. They require more physical exertion and efficient use of the body to use effectively (although there are also substances called "booster" which we apply to make hard tacky rubbers come alive). Hybrids are a sort of mixture of the two that have become popular with the new 40mm plastic ball and can be used on either side. Typically you will use a harder rubber on the forehand than on the backhand, but it's up to personal preference.

tikhonj 5y ago

Why are musicians so obsessed with their instruments? Just use the right tool for the right job, don't call yourself a "pianist" or a "drummer", call yourself a musician.

TillE 5y ago
Yeah semi-pro musicians are probably the worst. It's really easy to get obsessed with both accumulating shiny new (or vintage) toys, and tweaking your favorite instruments so they're set up exactly how you want.
pjmlp 5y ago
That is what being a music composer is all about actually, not siloing oneself in a instrument category.
Rochus 5y ago
Because it takes the fameous 10'000 hours to become a master?
eternityforest 5y ago
Playing an instrument is harder than any basic non-mathematical programming. It's almost shocking to finish a project, clock out, practice guitar a bit and realize the difficulty difference. Buying stuff on the other hand is very easy. Just like running is(I assume, having never seriously done any sports) way harder. Buying more crap and then not even using it is easy. Everyone always wants their fast instant gratification hits, regardless of hobby.

bobnamob 5y ago

As much as I think the other replies to this question hit the nail on the head, I think there’s more to it than just tool obsession. Software developers are in the fairly unique position where most of our tools are software defined. We are experts in the discipline required to improve our own day to day work lives. How many other professions have this liberty? Woodworking does to an extent, carpenters regularly make their own jigs and clamps but rarely venture into the realm of sharpened tools. Contrast this with anyone working in the medical or retail(?) industries. People working in these fields are close to powerless to improve the tools they use every day. Embrace the tool improvement life, there’s still a long way to go before software tooling is “finished”

eternityforest 5y ago
It's hard to tell what benefit there actually is from this kind of thing. There's definitely great new tools developed all the time, but most of them seem to be planned megaprojects. I've never seen a custom build system or VCS or personal/project specific tooling I'd want to use. Seems like most of it happens just cause devs enjoy it. Making your own clamps seems very much the same. The other reason is there's a real cult of assuming that minimal is always best, and devs resent using any tool that has more features than they absolutely need. They also resent any more opinionated structure than they need, even if it makes things safer and easier, because they seem to really enjoy blank canvas creativity.
arduinomancer 5y ago
Ya this is what I was thinking as well, the unique thing is that making the tools and doing the work are the exact same process Plus its just very easy to work on a tool, I don't need to go buy a bunch of materials or anything

carrolldunham 5y ago

I can't believe all the catty defensive replies. The answer is that programming is designing automation (automatic computation) and functionality of computers. So getting into that mindset naturally leads to "well, what If I can automate what I'm doing too? What if I can make a function that makes these functions?". Not to mention, a gardener isn't tempted to trim his rake into a better rake, because that wouldn't work - the tools are made by a different process than what they are used for. Not so in programming

linspace 5y ago

Aren't computers tool themselves? It's only natural people interested in computers are interested in tool making