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Reminder that fuel prices are _heavily_ subsidized by taxpayer money by an estimated _yearly_ 5.9 trillion dollars. [0] This means that every year the world's

Reminder that fuel prices are _heavily_ subsidized by taxpayer money by an estimated _yearly_ 5.9 trillion dollars. [0] This means that every year the world's taxpayers are giving 7% of the world's GDP for free to Oil and Gas industry. Before any comparison can be made, the real cost of oil and gas needs to be internalized by these companies . [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_subsidies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_subsidies

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
> The real cost of oil and gas needs to be internalized by these companies. Well, it's not going to be internalized by the companies, no matter what happens. It's going to be borne by consumers, either in taxes or in direct charges. The difference is, if it's direct charges, then people feel more pressure to limit how much they use.
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  My point is that you cannot make a fair comparison between two modes of transport while one mode is propped up by free money. Either remove subsidies from Oil and Gas or subsidize EV purchase and charging. The argument of total cost is flawed otherwise.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    And it's a valid point. Your phrasing just sounded like the "companies should be a free source of money for our grand, expensive plans" school of economic insanity, and I reacted to that, rather than to what you were really saying. To your actual point, I have an honest question: Is electricity subsidized? Do you have a figure for total subsidies, worldwide? Note that much of the investment in renewables has been subsidized, though that's probably a one-off at installation rather than an annual amount. It would have to be pro-rated over the expected lifetime of the installation.
    - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
      Electricity is indirectly subsidized in most countries through coal and gas subsidies (which are then used for generation). There also countries where national grid and generation are state owned and there again a second tier of government financing exists.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

> The real cost of oil and gas needs to be internalized by these companies. Well, it's not going to be internalized by the companies, no matter what happens. It's going to be borne by consumers, either in taxes or in direct charges. The difference is, if it's direct charges, then people feel more pressure to limit how much they use.

DoingIsLearning 5y ago
My point is that you cannot make a fair comparison between two modes of transport while one mode is propped up by free money. Either remove subsidies from Oil and Gas or subsidize EV purchase and charging. The argument of total cost is flawed otherwise.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  And it's a valid point. Your phrasing just sounded like the "companies should be a free source of money for our grand, expensive plans" school of economic insanity, and I reacted to that, rather than to what you were really saying. To your actual point, I have an honest question: Is electricity subsidized? Do you have a figure for total subsidies, worldwide? Note that much of the investment in renewables has been subsidized, though that's probably a one-off at installation rather than an annual amount. It would have to be pro-rated over the expected lifetime of the installation.
  - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
    Electricity is indirectly subsidized in most countries through coal and gas subsidies (which are then used for generation). There also countries where national grid and generation are state owned and there again a second tier of government financing exists.