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> That's why forced collective action does very poorly compared with voluntary cooperation. People don't like being forced. This is about the same as proclaimi

> That's why forced collective action does very poorly compared with voluntary cooperation. People don't like being forced. This is about the same as proclaiming a fringe explanation for relativity effects to be definitely true, in a physics thread.

WalterBright 5y ago
The USSR was forced cooperation. The US is voluntary. Which economy fared better? It makes me sad to read so many comments from people who are convinced that the only way to get cooperation is through force.
- brimble 5y ago
  > The USSR was forced cooperation. The US is voluntary. Which economy fared better? This is a false choice, because both force cooperation, and neither "is voluntary". How they do so, when, and how much, is what's different. That's the trouble here, it's not a "force or don't" choice. If you don't force anything, you'll have a bad time. Evidently, if you force too much, you're also likely to have a bad time. There's a lot of room—and not just on that one-dimensional measure—between the two extremes. > It makes me sad to read so many comments from people who are convinced that the only way to get cooperation is through force. You don't need to be sad, then, because you're reading that into it.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    > because both force cooperation When has Microsoft forced you to cooperate with them? You try to make some sort of moral equivalence between force in the USSR and the US. Do you realize that the USSR built a wall around itself and would shoot anyone who tried to leave? All I can say is, talk to someone who grew up in the USSR. I have a couple friends who did. I saw the Berlin Wall in 1969 in its heyday. I've heard the bullshit from Soviet apologists trying to deny the Wall and its reality. Then come back and tell me about how McDonald's forces you to ... what ... I have no idea what you imagine McDonald's is forcing you to do. You can always run away to Venezuela anytime you feel oppressed in the US. Nobody is going to stop you.
    - brimble 5y ago
      > When has Microsoft forced you to cooperate with them? Nothing about my post claimed, or implied, this, so I don't know why you ask. > You try to make some sort of moral equivalence between force in the USSR and the US. No, not at all. Nothing about that passage was about morals. > All I can say is, talk to someone who grew up in the USSR. I have a couple friends who did. I saw the Berlin Wall in 1969 in its heyday. I've heard the bullshit from Soviet apologists trying to deny the Wall and its reality. OK? Point conceded, since I never contested it? What's that... got to do with this? > Then come back and tell me about how McDonald's forces you to ... what ... I have no idea what you imagine McDonald's is forcing you to do. I don't know either, since you're imagining me imagining McDonald's forcing me to do something. For the same reason, I will be unable to "come back and tell you". I lack whatever information this is. > You can always run away to Venezuela anytime you feel oppressed in the US. Nobody is going to stop you. Hahaha, oh, I see. This isn't my kind of fun, so I'm out. I trust this exchange was at illustratively-helpful to someone out there.
      - WalterBright 5y ago
        You wrote: "because both force cooperation". How does the US free market system force you to cooperate?

WalterBright 5y ago

The USSR was forced cooperation. The US is voluntary. Which economy fared better? It makes me sad to read so many comments from people who are convinced that the only way to get cooperation is through force.

brimble 5y ago
> The USSR was forced cooperation. The US is voluntary. Which economy fared better? This is a false choice, because both force cooperation, and neither "is voluntary". How they do so, when, and how much, is what's different. That's the trouble here, it's not a "force or don't" choice. If you don't force anything, you'll have a bad time. Evidently, if you force too much, you're also likely to have a bad time. There's a lot of room—and not just on that one-dimensional measure—between the two extremes. > It makes me sad to read so many comments from people who are convinced that the only way to get cooperation is through force. You don't need to be sad, then, because you're reading that into it.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  > because both force cooperation When has Microsoft forced you to cooperate with them? You try to make some sort of moral equivalence between force in the USSR and the US. Do you realize that the USSR built a wall around itself and would shoot anyone who tried to leave? All I can say is, talk to someone who grew up in the USSR. I have a couple friends who did. I saw the Berlin Wall in 1969 in its heyday. I've heard the bullshit from Soviet apologists trying to deny the Wall and its reality. Then come back and tell me about how McDonald's forces you to ... what ... I have no idea what you imagine McDonald's is forcing you to do. You can always run away to Venezuela anytime you feel oppressed in the US. Nobody is going to stop you.
  - brimble 5y ago
    > When has Microsoft forced you to cooperate with them? Nothing about my post claimed, or implied, this, so I don't know why you ask. > You try to make some sort of moral equivalence between force in the USSR and the US. No, not at all. Nothing about that passage was about morals. > All I can say is, talk to someone who grew up in the USSR. I have a couple friends who did. I saw the Berlin Wall in 1969 in its heyday. I've heard the bullshit from Soviet apologists trying to deny the Wall and its reality. OK? Point conceded, since I never contested it? What's that... got to do with this? > Then come back and tell me about how McDonald's forces you to ... what ... I have no idea what you imagine McDonald's is forcing you to do. I don't know either, since you're imagining me imagining McDonald's forcing me to do something. For the same reason, I will be unable to "come back and tell you". I lack whatever information this is. > You can always run away to Venezuela anytime you feel oppressed in the US. Nobody is going to stop you. Hahaha, oh, I see. This isn't my kind of fun, so I'm out. I trust this exchange was at illustratively-helpful to someone out there.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      You wrote: "because both force cooperation". How does the US free market system force you to cooperate?