> but we should at least respect them for their indelible mark as a society interested in actually improving itself A resonance for hackers should be the ori

> but we should at least respect them for their indelible mark as a society interested in actually improving itself A resonance for hackers should be the origin of the "quintessential engineer", like Brunel and Telford - stove pipe hats, steam-punk lab, recklessly building bridges beyond all reasonable ambition, skirting the bleeding edge of mechanics and material science - which are still standing today. Move slow and build things. And the poverty I mention (above) was of course a catalyst for many of the great reformers, Bentham and company... definitely a mixed age.