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You should definitely go to an exit interview. In the case of a sour breakup, you should 100% lie. Just say it was great but you were in need for a change. Don

by fleddr 5y ago

You should definitely go to an exit interview. In the case of a sour breakup, you should 100% lie. Just say it was great but you were in need for a change. Don't dramatize the lying part because you lied to get in and the employer lied about how great their company is. Work is a lie, play the game. In the case of a drama-free breakup, when pressed for feedback and the room being receptive of it, do share your thoughts. But toned down, in a light hearted manner. Comment on things and processes, not people. This gives the impression "helpful until the end". Both ways are a clean exit, with no bridges burned. There might come a time in your life where you're less desirable on the market, having intact relations can make a huge difference then. You should internalize the dishonesty as a type of strength, because that's what it is in this context. In a sour breakup, you're given the perfect opportunity for revenge, with little immediate consequences. Your ex-boss Tim is an asshole. He knows he is. And you know he is. You now have the opportunity to finally say it to his face. Applying silence in this situation is powerful. It says so much more. I could harm you right now, but I chose not to. This radiates self control, which is widely respected. Meanwhile, Tim was looking forward to a good burn and argument, but didn't get any. He feels submissive, like a Roman emperor giving him a thumbs up, allowed to live another day. And that's how you play it. Alternatively, you can be 21 years old and post on Medium "7 reasons why I quite company X after 8 months". Let me know how that goes.

ca98am79 5y ago
I don't see how lying can ever be recommended. It purposely misinforms. It distorts the worldview of those who are lied to. You can be honest in a kind way. You don't have to always say everything. But don't lie! Don't lie, it is not helpful and just misleads those who you lie to. It is cowardly. It's much better to be honest and kind.
bradlys 5y ago
> Work is a lie, play the game. If there’s any advice I could ever give anyone who has any amount of integrity and tries to live an honest life - it’s this alone. If you don’t play the game - you’re not playing the game everyone else is and you will always lose in the end. Extremely painful to deal with for bright eyed young folks or those switching industries thinking things might be different.
- gotaquestion 5y ago
  I'm not sure I understand what "the game" is, and I'm in my mid-50's. I don't know whether I'm so good at the game I don't know I'm playing it--because nothing bad has happened--or, I'm not playing it at all--and nothing bad has happened. And I've been in this since the late 80's, through IBM, Microsoft, and Intel, not to mention two startups and contracting. Can you elaborate what The Game actually is?
  - notch656a 5y ago
    The game is to make those around you look good. Results may be a way to achieve that, but they are subordinate to making your boss and contacts look and feel good. The 'game' is that what works at the free-market business level (maximize profit) doesn't work at the authoritarian non-free-market employee level (i.e. you win by making those with social capital look good and winning this social capital).
  - bradlys 5y ago
    I feel like I’ve been at more companies than you and I started in 2013. The fuck. The game is about presenting an image that doesn’t actually exist. It’s about not acknowledging your manager is a toxic piece of shit and your company is completely broken and will likely be bankrupt in a few years while execs milk every ounce from it. It’s about faking positivity and that you’re so excited to join the company because it’s so amazing and definitely not because your previous employer is horrible. It’s about lying about past accomplishments because everyone does this in interviews so you need to stand out and seem just as good or better. It’s about knowing that the other side is doing this too and you’re not the only one lying. You get lied to during interviews, you get lied to during onboarding, you get lied to during 1:1s, you get lied to during performance reviews, and you get lied to when leaving the company. You get lied to about why you’re building the product you are. You get lied to about why we chose an architecture. You get lied to about why you didn’t get something but someone else did. (But better - you don’t ask. You play the game. You lie about knowing) It’s about acknowledging that work involved a heavy amount of lying from all sides and being honest - while noble - will not get you far in this industry. Especially in SV where lying is king. Where lying is renamed as “aspirational” speaking. Etc.
abandonliberty 5y ago
I can see how, for the jaded, data might match these conclusions. It feels like something written by someone with relatively low social and emotional intelligence, which will generate a negative feedback loop and more disappointment and cynicism. You have an opportunity to share constructive feedback. If you use that opportunity to get revenge, it will reflect on you. It doesn't mean you have to lie through your teeth, but it also doesn't mean you owe them the completely unadulterated version of your personal catharsis. Focus on the outcome you want to create.

by fleddr 5y ago

ca98am79 5y ago

I don't see how lying can ever be recommended. It purposely misinforms. It distorts the worldview of those who are lied to. You can be honest in a kind way. You don't have to always say everything. But don't lie! Don't lie, it is not helpful and just misleads those who you lie to. It is cowardly. It's much better to be honest and kind.

bradlys 5y ago

> Work is a lie, play the game. If there’s any advice I could ever give anyone who has any amount of integrity and tries to live an honest life - it’s this alone. If you don’t play the game - you’re not playing the game everyone else is and you will always lose in the end. Extremely painful to deal with for bright eyed young folks or those switching industries thinking things might be different.

gotaquestion 5y ago
I'm not sure I understand what "the game" is, and I'm in my mid-50's. I don't know whether I'm so good at the game I don't know I'm playing it--because nothing bad has happened--or, I'm not playing it at all--and nothing bad has happened. And I've been in this since the late 80's, through IBM, Microsoft, and Intel, not to mention two startups and contracting. Can you elaborate what The Game actually is?
- notch656a 5y ago
  The game is to make those around you look good. Results may be a way to achieve that, but they are subordinate to making your boss and contacts look and feel good. The 'game' is that what works at the free-market business level (maximize profit) doesn't work at the authoritarian non-free-market employee level (i.e. you win by making those with social capital look good and winning this social capital).
- bradlys 5y ago
  I feel like I’ve been at more companies than you and I started in 2013. The fuck. The game is about presenting an image that doesn’t actually exist. It’s about not acknowledging your manager is a toxic piece of shit and your company is completely broken and will likely be bankrupt in a few years while execs milk every ounce from it. It’s about faking positivity and that you’re so excited to join the company because it’s so amazing and definitely not because your previous employer is horrible. It’s about lying about past accomplishments because everyone does this in interviews so you need to stand out and seem just as good or better. It’s about knowing that the other side is doing this too and you’re not the only one lying. You get lied to during interviews, you get lied to during onboarding, you get lied to during 1:1s, you get lied to during performance reviews, and you get lied to when leaving the company. You get lied to about why you’re building the product you are. You get lied to about why we chose an architecture. You get lied to about why you didn’t get something but someone else did. (But better - you don’t ask. You play the game. You lie about knowing) It’s about acknowledging that work involved a heavy amount of lying from all sides and being honest - while noble - will not get you far in this industry. Especially in SV where lying is king. Where lying is renamed as “aspirational” speaking. Etc.

abandonliberty 5y ago

I can see how, for the jaded, data might match these conclusions. It feels like something written by someone with relatively low social and emotional intelligence, which will generate a negative feedback loop and more disappointment and cynicism. You have an opportunity to share constructive feedback. If you use that opportunity to get revenge, it will reflect on you. It doesn't mean you have to lie through your teeth, but it also doesn't mean you owe them the completely unadulterated version of your personal catharsis. Focus on the outcome you want to create.