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Completely disagree - limiting lines of code as an ethos makes as much sense as using lines of code written as a business metric. What if they want to add a ne

Completely disagree - limiting lines of code as an ethos makes as much sense as using lines of code written as a business metric. What if they want to add a new feature that takes another ~1000 LoC? Can they just write it as a separate library and include it as a dependency? IMO trying to minimize LoC creates a perverse incentive to split up your package when it might not need it (in the same way maximizing LoC creates a perverse incentive to write the most verbose code possible, not necessarily the most readable/maintainable)

dleslie 5y ago
> What if they want to add a new feature that takes another ~1000 LoC? They don't. The LoC limit exists as much to avoid scope creep and maintain focus as it is about anything else.
- blueblob 5y ago
  It trades off utility for managing scope creep. Keeping this code base tiny necessarily means that anything that uses it would need to write more code. If the point is a demonstration instead of a usable library, then that is good because it is much easier to follow without excess complexity.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    Necessarily is a strong word; there are assuredly many users of this tool who find it sufficient in its scope as it is, based on the project activity. If a user needs significant feature additions they can write them as a separate tool that interacts with this one.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  This one arguably does have a bit of scope creep it's just in a separate directory.
alwaysjoe 5y ago
Maybe don’t add that feature then? Not every library is meant to solve all problems
- dymk 5y ago
  No, but every library tries to solve at least _one_ problem, and maybe it needs to go over 1000 lines to do that.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    This one doesn't, apparently.
recuter 5y ago
You say 1000 lines is an arbitrary number. Do you actually have a feature in mind that takes it above this artificial limit? Did you even read the code? They like this round number. Fork. Why argue.
- striking 5y ago
  It's how you get commits like these, though https://github.com/geohot/tinygrad/commit/050636bcb1068beff62ed23392de02e2f5d80f22 https://github.com/geohot/tinygrad/commit/050636bcb1068beff6... Subject: here's two extra lines of precious code (#307) diff --git a/tinygrad/__init__.py b/tinygrad/__init__.py index 0deab3e9..31ac75d5 100644 --- a/tinygrad/__init__.py +++ b/tinygrad/__init__.py @@ -1,3 +1 @@ -import tinygrad.optim -import tinygrad.tensor -import tinygrad.nn +from tinygrad import optim, tensor, nn There's a difference between "I will refuse features like X/Y/Z" and "I want the length of the code file to be N lines at most". The former tells you both explicitly and implicitly which features not to bother contributing. The latter is just nonsense.
  - recuter 5y ago
    This is why the good lord gave us: https://github.com/psf/black https://github.com/psf/black Import line is actually improved with this commit. LGTM, ship it. We now return to your regularly scheduled bikeshedding.
    - striking 5y ago
      You're saving yourself from one kind of golfing, but not all of them. Additionally, I feel like installing an additional tool is kind of against the spirit of 1kLOC simplicity.
      - dundarious 5y ago
        Dev dependencies and release dependencies are distinct. There would be no sense in complaining about hypocrisy if a zero-dependency C project uses clang-format or valgrind, and similarly for a python project using black or mypy.
a-dub 5y ago
simplicity is a virtue. the project goal apparently isn't to have a lot of features, it's to do the core thing in the simplest way possible.
- lazide 5y ago
  And if someone does some code golf to stay under the 1000 line limit rather than go to 1050 lines that’s an improvement?
  - a-dub 5y ago
    no that's another bloated ml library with code compression. i suspect a part of the motivation for this library is learning and teaching. and maybe a little flexing on overcomplicated autograd libraries.
  - recursive 5y ago
    Then the human responsible for approving the PR will decide whether it's worth it. Personally, I love it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
elcomet 5y ago
This is a semi-educational project, so it makes sense to keep the number of lines small.
canjobear 5y ago
It serves an important gatekeeping function by discouraging low-effort contributions.
robbedpeter 5y ago
Not all software is intended to grow indefinitely. Keeping things small and grokkable is very valuable for learning.

dleslie 5y ago

> What if they want to add a new feature that takes another ~1000 LoC? They don't. The LoC limit exists as much to avoid scope creep and maintain focus as it is about anything else.

blueblob 5y ago
It trades off utility for managing scope creep. Keeping this code base tiny necessarily means that anything that uses it would need to write more code. If the point is a demonstration instead of a usable library, then that is good because it is much easier to follow without excess complexity.
- dleslie 5y ago
  Necessarily is a strong word; there are assuredly many users of this tool who find it sufficient in its scope as it is, based on the project activity. If a user needs significant feature additions they can write them as a separate tool that interacts with this one.
mhh__ 5y ago
This one arguably does have a bit of scope creep it's just in a separate directory.

alwaysjoe 5y ago

Maybe don’t add that feature then? Not every library is meant to solve all problems

dymk 5y ago
No, but every library tries to solve at least _one_ problem, and maybe it needs to go over 1000 lines to do that.
- dleslie 5y ago
  This one doesn't, apparently.

recuter 5y ago

You say 1000 lines is an arbitrary number. Do you actually have a feature in mind that takes it above this artificial limit? Did you even read the code? They like this round number. Fork. Why argue.

striking 5y ago
It's how you get commits like these, though https://github.com/geohot/tinygrad/commit/050636bcb1068beff62ed23392de02e2f5d80f22 https://github.com/geohot/tinygrad/commit/050636bcb1068beff6... Subject: here's two extra lines of precious code (#307) diff --git a/tinygrad/__init__.py b/tinygrad/__init__.py index 0deab3e9..31ac75d5 100644 --- a/tinygrad/__init__.py +++ b/tinygrad/__init__.py @@ -1,3 +1 @@ -import tinygrad.optim -import tinygrad.tensor -import tinygrad.nn +from tinygrad import optim, tensor, nn There's a difference between "I will refuse features like X/Y/Z" and "I want the length of the code file to be N lines at most". The former tells you both explicitly and implicitly which features not to bother contributing. The latter is just nonsense.
- recuter 5y ago
  This is why the good lord gave us: https://github.com/psf/black https://github.com/psf/black Import line is actually improved with this commit. LGTM, ship it. We now return to your regularly scheduled bikeshedding.
  - striking 5y ago
    You're saving yourself from one kind of golfing, but not all of them. Additionally, I feel like installing an additional tool is kind of against the spirit of 1kLOC simplicity.
    - dundarious 5y ago
      Dev dependencies and release dependencies are distinct. There would be no sense in complaining about hypocrisy if a zero-dependency C project uses clang-format or valgrind, and similarly for a python project using black or mypy.

a-dub 5y ago

simplicity is a virtue. the project goal apparently isn't to have a lot of features, it's to do the core thing in the simplest way possible.

lazide 5y ago
And if someone does some code golf to stay under the 1000 line limit rather than go to 1050 lines that’s an improvement?
- a-dub 5y ago
  no that's another bloated ml library with code compression. i suspect a part of the motivation for this library is learning and teaching. and maybe a little flexing on overcomplicated autograd libraries.
- recursive 5y ago
  Then the human responsible for approving the PR will decide whether it's worth it. Personally, I love it.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

elcomet 5y ago

This is a semi-educational project, so it makes sense to keep the number of lines small.

canjobear 5y ago

It serves an important gatekeeping function by discouraging low-effort contributions.

robbedpeter 5y ago

Not all software is intended to grow indefinitely. Keeping things small and grokkable is very valuable for learning.