6 ms·

About 1/2 of nuclear power plants in France are down because of maintenance and/or repairs[1][2]: > France's nuclear fleet has been hit by unprecedented outage

by marbu 5y ago

About 1/2 of nuclear power plants in France are down because of maintenance and/or repairs[1][2]: > France's nuclear fleet has been hit by unprecedented outages this winter with half of its 56 reactors currently unavailable. This is happening in a country where most people use electric heating[3] while the temperatures dropped a bit recently (minimal temperatures are mostly below zero centigrade, while max. doesn't go over 10 C)[4]. Moreover the ongoing Russian war doesn't exactly help here. [1] https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/edf-extend-civaux-nuclear-outage-shut-down-reactors-chooz-safety-measures-2021-12-15/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/edf-extend-civaux-nuc... [2] https://www.spglobal.com/commodity-insights/en/market-insights/latest-news/electric-power/040322-french-power-spikes-on-cold-snap-rte-calls-for-reduced-consumption https://www.spglobal.com/commodity-insights/en/market-insigh... [3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1086485/types-heater-housing-main-france/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1086485/types-heater-hou... [4] https://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/forecastmaps?LANG=en&CONT=frfr&MAPS=vtn&LOOP=0&LAND=FR&MORE=1&UP=0&R=0&DAY=0 https://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/forecastmaps?LA...

dijit 5y ago
I have to say that this bears a striking similarity to what stuxnet intended to do and the timing is impeccable with the current Russian invasion of Ukraine. Not to invoke the Russian boogeyman. But I wonder.
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
Yet another reason that nuclear isn't the panacea it is presented as here.
- mritun 5y ago
  Which technology doesn’t need maintenance?
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    Half of the plants offline?
    - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
      Is that a problem with nuclear power itself or bad planning?
    - synotna2 5y ago
      Good thing the sun never stops shining and the wind never stops blowing
- greggsy 5y ago
  I’m not sure if it is being presented as one? It’s one of a mix of technologies that can offer strategic coverage to specific geographic and industrial use cases.
  - 0xdeadb00f 5y ago
    It's often touted as one in HN comments is what they mean.
- scrollaway 5y ago
  We export a lot of our electricity. I suspect that hasn’t suddenly stopped just because some of our plants are offline. There’s no country on earth which can give lessons to France on energy independence ESPECIALLY NOW, honestly.
  - cinntaile 5y ago
    https://www.rte-france.com/en/eco2mix/cross-border-electricity-trading https://www.rte-france.com/en/eco2mix/cross-border-electrici... You import more than you export. Which is expected when half of your reactors are offline.
- spupe 5y ago
  Nuclear is the worst form of stable, non-fossil fuel energy source, except all the other ones we tried. Or do you have an alternative in mind?
  - Valgrim 5y ago
    It's not a simple solution, but a plan for a long-term, robust, self-sustaining world: A good mix of {solar, wind, geothermal, hydro (as storage), biomass, tidal} combined with long-range energy transmission, grid storage, energy efficient buildings, transport, city planning and industrial processes. Of course let's not close existing plants germany-style while we do it (in the next few decades), but lets not kid ourselves that nuclear fission can power a stable, robust and resilient society that can last thousand of years.
    - synotna2 5y ago
      Yes, hopefully we have unicorns in the distant future Today and the immediate future need solutions that we can already build
      - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
        All of those options are available to us right now, they are literally being rolled out as we speak. There is a much bigger question about our ability to build nuclear on the scale required.
        spupe 4y ago
        Honest question, do you know a serious source I can read about how this rollout is being executed? I am only familiar with European energy policy, and grid storage currently is a pipe dream, more efficient construction is very slowly being rolled out and so far doesn't make a dent in the problem, and the renewable mix being expanded is inevitably intermittent (mostly solar and wind, with the rest being negligible), as hydro is a very small component of the mix so far and in the medium term future. The only question about our ability to build nuclear is cost-efficiency and regulations.
- lm28469 5y ago
  I'm French, we let it degrade, it wasn't an inevitability, it's just that since a few decades we run the country more like a lean startup (what do I need in 6 months) rather than like a nation (what will I need in 50 years) and obviously this is the exact opposite of what you want when it comes to nuclear
  - pydry 5y ago
    The alternative is your quite cheap wholesale and retail electricity prices would have gone through the roof. Nuclear is fucking expensive.
    - lm28469 5y ago
      I live in Germany and pay twice as much as what I would pay in France per Kwh, it's been true ever since I moved and is still true today, germany actually is the most expensive in the EU zone [0] [1]. Nuclear is both cheaper and less polluting, but I guess it doesn't matter because one dude on twitter posted a big number chart due to a temporary anomaly. Exchange prices at a specific time can be wacky because exchange prices are much more complex than just the energy sources: https://www.axpo.com/ch/en/about-us/magazine.detail.html/magazine/energy-market/wie-der-strompreis-entsteht.html https://www.axpo.com/ch/en/about-us/magazine.detail.html/mag... Ukraine + cold wave over europe + poor maintenance + electricity being bought months in advance + things like these [2] = sometimes you get crazy numbers [0] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... [1] https://strom-report.de/electricity-prices-europe/ https://strom-report.de/electricity-prices-europe/ [2] https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/EDF-to-sell-more-cheap-electricity-to-competitors-to-keep-prices-low https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/EDF-to-s...
      - pydry 5y ago
        >I live in Germany and pay twice as much as what I would pay in France per Kwh A feat achieved because France front loaded its nuclear capex. The plants they have are paid off but aging and almost at the end of their life while Germany has been ramping up new generation capacity. Once Germany is close to 100% green energy their electricity prices will go down a lot. >Nuclear is both cheaper and less polluting, but I guess it doesn't matter because one dude on twitter posted a big number chart due to a temporary anomaly It's only cheaper if you already built the plants 40 years ago. This spike is a sign of things to come. Most nuclear plants in France have about 10-15 years of life left and building a whole set of new ones will cost about half a trillion dollars and take... well, about 10-15 years i suppose. Dont think that wont get bundled into your electric billm Of course, France could set about extending the life of these plants but that would significantly impact safety.

by marbu 5y ago

dijit 5y ago

I have to say that this bears a striking similarity to what stuxnet intended to do and the timing is impeccable with the current Russian invasion of Ukraine. Not to invoke the Russian boogeyman. But I wonder.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago

Yet another reason that nuclear isn't the panacea it is presented as here.

mritun 5y ago
Which technology doesn’t need maintenance?
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  Half of the plants offline?
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    Is that a problem with nuclear power itself or bad planning?
  - synotna2 5y ago
    Good thing the sun never stops shining and the wind never stops blowing
greggsy 5y ago
I’m not sure if it is being presented as one? It’s one of a mix of technologies that can offer strategic coverage to specific geographic and industrial use cases.
- 0xdeadb00f 5y ago
  It's often touted as one in HN comments is what they mean.
scrollaway 5y ago
We export a lot of our electricity. I suspect that hasn’t suddenly stopped just because some of our plants are offline. There’s no country on earth which can give lessons to France on energy independence ESPECIALLY NOW, honestly.
- cinntaile 5y ago
  https://www.rte-france.com/en/eco2mix/cross-border-electricity-trading https://www.rte-france.com/en/eco2mix/cross-border-electrici... You import more than you export. Which is expected when half of your reactors are offline.
spupe 5y ago
Nuclear is the worst form of stable, non-fossil fuel energy source, except all the other ones we tried. Or do you have an alternative in mind?
- Valgrim 5y ago
  It's not a simple solution, but a plan for a long-term, robust, self-sustaining world: A good mix of {solar, wind, geothermal, hydro (as storage), biomass, tidal} combined with long-range energy transmission, grid storage, energy efficient buildings, transport, city planning and industrial processes. Of course let's not close existing plants germany-style while we do it (in the next few decades), but lets not kid ourselves that nuclear fission can power a stable, robust and resilient society that can last thousand of years.
  - synotna2 5y ago
    Yes, hopefully we have unicorns in the distant future Today and the immediate future need solutions that we can already build
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      All of those options are available to us right now, they are literally being rolled out as we speak. There is a much bigger question about our ability to build nuclear on the scale required.
      - spupe 4y ago
        Honest question, do you know a serious source I can read about how this rollout is being executed? I am only familiar with European energy policy, and grid storage currently is a pipe dream, more efficient construction is very slowly being rolled out and so far doesn't make a dent in the problem, and the renewable mix being expanded is inevitably intermittent (mostly solar and wind, with the rest being negligible), as hydro is a very small component of the mix so far and in the medium term future. The only question about our ability to build nuclear is cost-efficiency and regulations.
lm28469 5y ago
I'm French, we let it degrade, it wasn't an inevitability, it's just that since a few decades we run the country more like a lean startup (what do I need in 6 months) rather than like a nation (what will I need in 50 years) and obviously this is the exact opposite of what you want when it comes to nuclear
- pydry 5y ago
  The alternative is your quite cheap wholesale and retail electricity prices would have gone through the roof. Nuclear is fucking expensive.
  - lm28469 5y ago
    I live in Germany and pay twice as much as what I would pay in France per Kwh, it's been true ever since I moved and is still true today, germany actually is the most expensive in the EU zone [0] [1]. Nuclear is both cheaper and less polluting, but I guess it doesn't matter because one dude on twitter posted a big number chart due to a temporary anomaly. Exchange prices at a specific time can be wacky because exchange prices are much more complex than just the energy sources: https://www.axpo.com/ch/en/about-us/magazine.detail.html/magazine/energy-market/wie-der-strompreis-entsteht.html https://www.axpo.com/ch/en/about-us/magazine.detail.html/mag... Ukraine + cold wave over europe + poor maintenance + electricity being bought months in advance + things like these [2] = sometimes you get crazy numbers [0] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... [1] https://strom-report.de/electricity-prices-europe/ https://strom-report.de/electricity-prices-europe/ [2] https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/EDF-to-sell-more-cheap-electricity-to-competitors-to-keep-prices-low https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/EDF-to-s...
    - pydry 5y ago
      >I live in Germany and pay twice as much as what I would pay in France per Kwh A feat achieved because France front loaded its nuclear capex. The plants they have are paid off but aging and almost at the end of their life while Germany has been ramping up new generation capacity. Once Germany is close to 100% green energy their electricity prices will go down a lot. >Nuclear is both cheaper and less polluting, but I guess it doesn't matter because one dude on twitter posted a big number chart due to a temporary anomaly It's only cheaper if you already built the plants 40 years ago. This spike is a sign of things to come. Most nuclear plants in France have about 10-15 years of life left and building a whole set of new ones will cost about half a trillion dollars and take... well, about 10-15 years i suppose. Dont think that wont get bundled into your electric billm Of course, France could set about extending the life of these plants but that would significantly impact safety.