4 ms·

It sounds like you weren't meeting the needs of the company either and this is all sour grapes. If someone is not meeting the expectations or underperforming a

It sounds like you weren't meeting the needs of the company either and this is all sour grapes. If someone is not meeting the expectations or underperforming and it's not a character problem. I'd be open to working with them if they did some growing somewhere else. If however, you have this kind of attitude of blame-shifting and finger pointing without any substance to back it up, no one will want to work with you. Your boss was right in warning his friends.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"If however, you have this kind of attitude of blame-shifting and finger pointing" They asked him whether anything is wrong, they don't get to complain about the answer. On the other hand, for a senior person to go around town and spread rumours about a (presumably) junior team member is exactly the kind of behaviour I want nothing to do with. This comment is miopic, seems the closer you are to the top the less maturity and aelf-control you are expected to have?
- throw1230 5y ago
  None of the feedback OP has given to HR has any substance. If you throw around heavy words like this, you better know how to back your words up. - passive aggressive: This is a personal judgment. He was passive aggressive in what way? - excluded you from the team: How was he excluded? Was he not invited to events? Or did he not get good projects? If you are a temp with potential performance problems, it's normal that you don't get the cool projects. - code was awful: Again, is this a sentiment shared by other members of the team or is it just one junior engineer being super opinionated about something - long term maintainability: I don't think he was there for long - missing roadmap because poor design decisions: Again a junior opinion, running projects are complex with many different variables, you fail meeting deadlines for various reasons, there's never a single reason, and that reason is never "we had a bad piece of code written by one guy". I don't think OP has the historical context of that led to the that code. When I hear all this feedback coming from a temp, all I hear is they weren't a team player, they don't know how to be diplomatic and most of the things they are saying are coming out of frustration and have no substance and is not actionable.
  - jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
    You are sealioning with all of these questions and accusations. This isn't a trial, aroundtown doesn't need to divulge all of the evidence in order to share their anecdote here. You've made an unfair judgement without knowing them or their boss.
    - throw1230 5y ago
      I've made a judgment about the event with what I have read. I have no intention to bully anyone. My point is clear, we are only reading one side of the story and I don't see an iota of maturity in the story he described. Therefore I also don't believe that his manager called everyone in the town to tell them not to hire him. We don't even know the feedback was sent out to his manager. Maybe the other employers figured out on their own or maybe they asked his manager for a reference.
      - hluska 5y ago
        And again, this isn’t a trial and aroundtown doesn’t have to share all their evidence. Why not just take it as an anecdote and leave it? You’ve repeated this theme enough now that it sure seems like bullying. Would you just let it go?
        throw1230 5y ago
        I'm not even talking to him, most of my replies are to others who asked me a question or challenged what I said. They don't have to share anything at all, but I'm free to talk about the parts I've read. Even if all my judgment is correct, that doesn't mean anything. We all did hot-headed stuff, fucked around and found out.
  - detaro 5y ago
    > This is a personal judgment. He was passive aggressive in what way? It's an exit interview, so that is an excellent question for HR to ask. > excluded you from the team: How was he excluded? same as above. > code was awful: Again, is this a sentiment shared by other members of the team or is it just one junior engineer being super opinionated about something Something you can correlate with other feedback, and see if it gets mentioned repeatedly, or not. ... But you straight out just always assume the most negative interpretation, and then come to the conclusion that your prejudice was confirmed, and support spreading that outside the company.
- iratewizard 5y ago
  I once fired a Jr dev who lied about having done work and was generally being a salary thief. When I told him, he said he would work for free, it would never happen again, it was a misunderstanding and pleaded for his job. I told him no, so he went into the office crying to beg the founder for his job. If someone were to ask me about hiring him, I would say in no uncertain terms that it's a mistake. I wonder, though, if he was telling his side of the story on HN, how I would have been painted as the villain.
  - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
    Nobody is a villain here. This is the system we all live under together. Until that changes, we are stuck with it. That said, what is profit if not stolen value?
    - iratewizard 5y ago
      Profit is investment plus risk plus labor paying dividends to the entrepreneur. Go be a nutjob somewhere else.
stavros 5y ago
Except aroundtown expressed their opinion to HR when asked, and the boss went around badmouthing them around town. Only one of the two is the asshole here.
- throw1230 5y ago
  Nah man, exit interviews aren't to express opinions or talk shit, it's a data source for HR to identify problems emerging as patterns and improve their org/company. One guy saying "my boss sucked" isn't really feedback
  - stavros 5y ago
    I didn't say it was useful feedback, I said they asked him his opinion and they got it. Badmouthing him around town for it is completely uncalled for.
    - throw1230 5y ago
      Eh we don't really know what happened and to what extent he was badmouthed. If it's as bad as he says, then yes that was uncalled for
      - stavros 5y ago
        I don't see any reason to doubt his story, and it's pointless to anyway. It might be total fiction, but within those parameters, he was right and they were wrong. We're just expressing opinions on a forum, which is the most moot thing to do anyway.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - digisign 5y ago
    It is after a number of people quit. Then there is good information on who the problem is.
  - 5y ago

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

"If however, you have this kind of attitude of blame-shifting and finger pointing" They asked him whether anything is wrong, they don't get to complain about the answer. On the other hand, for a senior person to go around town and spread rumours about a (presumably) junior team member is exactly the kind of behaviour I want nothing to do with. This comment is miopic, seems the closer you are to the top the less maturity and aelf-control you are expected to have?

throw1230 5y ago
None of the feedback OP has given to HR has any substance. If you throw around heavy words like this, you better know how to back your words up. - passive aggressive: This is a personal judgment. He was passive aggressive in what way? - excluded you from the team: How was he excluded? Was he not invited to events? Or did he not get good projects? If you are a temp with potential performance problems, it's normal that you don't get the cool projects. - code was awful: Again, is this a sentiment shared by other members of the team or is it just one junior engineer being super opinionated about something - long term maintainability: I don't think he was there for long - missing roadmap because poor design decisions: Again a junior opinion, running projects are complex with many different variables, you fail meeting deadlines for various reasons, there's never a single reason, and that reason is never "we had a bad piece of code written by one guy". I don't think OP has the historical context of that led to the that code. When I hear all this feedback coming from a temp, all I hear is they weren't a team player, they don't know how to be diplomatic and most of the things they are saying are coming out of frustration and have no substance and is not actionable.
- jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
  You are sealioning with all of these questions and accusations. This isn't a trial, aroundtown doesn't need to divulge all of the evidence in order to share their anecdote here. You've made an unfair judgement without knowing them or their boss.
  - throw1230 5y ago
    I've made a judgment about the event with what I have read. I have no intention to bully anyone. My point is clear, we are only reading one side of the story and I don't see an iota of maturity in the story he described. Therefore I also don't believe that his manager called everyone in the town to tell them not to hire him. We don't even know the feedback was sent out to his manager. Maybe the other employers figured out on their own or maybe they asked his manager for a reference.
    - hluska 5y ago
      And again, this isn’t a trial and aroundtown doesn’t have to share all their evidence. Why not just take it as an anecdote and leave it? You’ve repeated this theme enough now that it sure seems like bullying. Would you just let it go?
      - throw1230 5y ago
        I'm not even talking to him, most of my replies are to others who asked me a question or challenged what I said. They don't have to share anything at all, but I'm free to talk about the parts I've read. Even if all my judgment is correct, that doesn't mean anything. We all did hot-headed stuff, fucked around and found out.
- detaro 5y ago
  > This is a personal judgment. He was passive aggressive in what way? It's an exit interview, so that is an excellent question for HR to ask. > excluded you from the team: How was he excluded? same as above. > code was awful: Again, is this a sentiment shared by other members of the team or is it just one junior engineer being super opinionated about something Something you can correlate with other feedback, and see if it gets mentioned repeatedly, or not. ... But you straight out just always assume the most negative interpretation, and then come to the conclusion that your prejudice was confirmed, and support spreading that outside the company.
iratewizard 5y ago
I once fired a Jr dev who lied about having done work and was generally being a salary thief. When I told him, he said he would work for free, it would never happen again, it was a misunderstanding and pleaded for his job. I told him no, so he went into the office crying to beg the founder for his job. If someone were to ask me about hiring him, I would say in no uncertain terms that it's a mistake. I wonder, though, if he was telling his side of the story on HN, how I would have been painted as the villain.
- nopenopenopeno 5y ago
  Nobody is a villain here. This is the system we all live under together. Until that changes, we are stuck with it. That said, what is profit if not stolen value?
  - iratewizard 5y ago
    Profit is investment plus risk plus labor paying dividends to the entrepreneur. Go be a nutjob somewhere else.

stavros 5y ago

Except aroundtown expressed their opinion to HR when asked, and the boss went around badmouthing them around town. Only one of the two is the asshole here.

throw1230 5y ago
Nah man, exit interviews aren't to express opinions or talk shit, it's a data source for HR to identify problems emerging as patterns and improve their org/company. One guy saying "my boss sucked" isn't really feedback
- stavros 5y ago
  I didn't say it was useful feedback, I said they asked him his opinion and they got it. Badmouthing him around town for it is completely uncalled for.
  - throw1230 5y ago
    Eh we don't really know what happened and to what extent he was badmouthed. If it's as bad as he says, then yes that was uncalled for
    - stavros 5y ago
      I don't see any reason to doubt his story, and it's pointless to anyway. It might be total fiction, but within those parameters, he was right and they were wrong. We're just expressing opinions on a forum, which is the most moot thing to do anyway.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- digisign 5y ago
  It is after a number of people quit. Then there is good information on who the problem is.
- 5y ago