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>Combat is for the lower classes, preferably rural poor (Former 11A here) This kind of glosses over a lot of cultural reasons for why you find "rural poor" in

>Combat is for the lower classes, preferably rural poor (Former 11A here) This kind of glosses over a lot of cultural reasons for why you find "rural poor" in combat branches. For a lot of the folks in my platoon, it was a family affair. Many were from e.g. Texas or Georgia, and had a brother/cousin/uncle/whatever who were also an 11B/13B etc. There isn't really a "preference" that the Army or Marine Corps has for poor people, but there is a cultural reason why people who like combat tend to be rural poor. This is of course my experience, and precise demographic data is hard to come by without a FOIA request. Just wanted to throw my two cents out there. The guys in my platoon weren't the "dumb hicks" a lot of people seem to think populate the infantry.

dfxm12 5y ago
The parent poster is talking about "rural poor", i.e., socioeconomic class, not "dumb hicks", i.e. perceived intelligence/education level. I think this is an important distinction. Yes, this is anecdata, and yes, there are many reasons why people serve, but I know some smart people (from college and in my career) who've served (in infantry) because they saw it as their only way to get money for college. I think that says less about military recruiting tactics than the government overall, because there really should be more options presented to someone looking to get an education to move up the socioeconomic ladder.
wolverine876 5y ago
I recently read an article where Army Chief of Staff, Gen. McConville, said that 79% of recruits come from families with service members, and how they need to expand the pool. https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2022/03/about-face-army-expects-shrink-next-year/363878/ https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2022/03/about-face-army-ex... As far as the rural, the military focuses their recruiting in rural areas and barely touches major cities - an odd choice given where the population centers are and the efficiency of sales in high-density population. In a quick search, I found this from 2019: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/army-recruiting-tech-industry-seattle.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/army-recruiting-tech-i... > The guys in my platoon weren't the "dumb hicks" a lot of people seem to think populate the infantry. Where have you heard that? I've never heard someone say that. People deify the military (in an unhealthy way) these days, IME.
- remarkEon 5y ago
  I don’t have the links handy, but yes many are fully aware that the AVF (All Volunteer Force) is in some ways sectioning themselves off from the rest of the population. In other ways I could argue it’s almost becoming a “warrior caste” situation, where fathers serve, (at least one of) their sons serve, and so on. I’m not ready to say this is unhealthy, necessarily, but it’s a very real trend. The only way to fix it is to bring back the draft, in either full or some modified form. >Where have you heard that? My classmates in grad school, other networking events with perhaps over-educated professionals. N = 1 and all that.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > The only way to fix it is to bring back the draft, in either full or some modified form. One idea is a draft for the reserves, not for active duty. That gives us the benefits of an AVF - the professionalism, etc. - and also gives Americans 'skin in the game' when at war, when reserves are called up. It's hard to imagine Afghanistan dragging on for 20 years if, for the whole time, civilians were being sent there to drive trucks, make dinner, even do some skilled labor, etc. And it would solve the civilian-military divide. But how much effectiveness would we lose with draftee reserves? I believe that volunteer professionals are far superior to draftees in active duty, but reserve jobs frequently seem different. > I could argue it’s almost becoming a “warrior caste” situation, where fathers serve, (at least one of) their sons serve, and so on. I’m not ready to say this is unhealthy, necessarily, but it’s a very real trend. I've seen that phrase many times, but how can that be a good thing, especially in a democracy?
    - analognoise 5y ago
      Hold on. We got lied to about Vietnam. Iraq had WMDs. Afghanistan was a budding democracy, fully equipped to stand on its own. Russia was an unstoppable modern military and we need hundreds of billions to hold them off! Now. All those people lied - buy we're blaming the civilian population for not having skin in a game which is clearly run by liars, and not "doing more" to stop these liars? We've watched it mangle generation after generation of our young people, and none of the liars are held responsible. Of course we don't want skin in the game. In a healthy democracy, these military liars wouldn't last. It's not a healthy democracy.
chiph 5y ago
That was one of the reasons I joined the USAF. Dad was in the 99th ID at the Battle of the Bulge (Purple Heart, Bronze Star) and later crossing the Ludendorff Bridge at Remagen. Granddad was a Sergeant Major in the Cheshire Regiment[1] for His Majesty doing secret stuff he never talked about. I was the underachiever of the family - serving in Germany during the Cold War.[0] But I felt compelled to follow in the family tradition, and I'm glad I did as it helped me get my shit together. Most of the people I served with had some college. There were a couple of guys in Basic with Bachelor's degrees, and we wondered why they went enlisted instead of officer. But each to their own. [0] Enjoy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpu5a0Bl8eY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpu5a0Bl8eY [1] Different unit than the author of the article was in. The Cheshire Regiment was line infantry, so full-time soldiers.

dfxm12 5y ago

The parent poster is talking about "rural poor", i.e., socioeconomic class, not "dumb hicks", i.e. perceived intelligence/education level. I think this is an important distinction. Yes, this is anecdata, and yes, there are many reasons why people serve, but I know some smart people (from college and in my career) who've served (in infantry) because they saw it as their only way to get money for college. I think that says less about military recruiting tactics than the government overall, because there really should be more options presented to someone looking to get an education to move up the socioeconomic ladder.

wolverine876 5y ago

I recently read an article where Army Chief of Staff, Gen. McConville, said that 79% of recruits come from families with service members, and how they need to expand the pool. https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2022/03/about-face-army-expects-shrink-next-year/363878/ https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2022/03/about-face-army-ex... As far as the rural, the military focuses their recruiting in rural areas and barely touches major cities - an odd choice given where the population centers are and the efficiency of sales in high-density population. In a quick search, I found this from 2019: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/army-recruiting-tech-industry-seattle.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/army-recruiting-tech-i... > The guys in my platoon weren't the "dumb hicks" a lot of people seem to think populate the infantry. Where have you heard that? I've never heard someone say that. People deify the military (in an unhealthy way) these days, IME.

remarkEon 5y ago
I don’t have the links handy, but yes many are fully aware that the AVF (All Volunteer Force) is in some ways sectioning themselves off from the rest of the population. In other ways I could argue it’s almost becoming a “warrior caste” situation, where fathers serve, (at least one of) their sons serve, and so on. I’m not ready to say this is unhealthy, necessarily, but it’s a very real trend. The only way to fix it is to bring back the draft, in either full or some modified form. >Where have you heard that? My classmates in grad school, other networking events with perhaps over-educated professionals. N = 1 and all that.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > The only way to fix it is to bring back the draft, in either full or some modified form. One idea is a draft for the reserves, not for active duty. That gives us the benefits of an AVF - the professionalism, etc. - and also gives Americans 'skin in the game' when at war, when reserves are called up. It's hard to imagine Afghanistan dragging on for 20 years if, for the whole time, civilians were being sent there to drive trucks, make dinner, even do some skilled labor, etc. And it would solve the civilian-military divide. But how much effectiveness would we lose with draftee reserves? I believe that volunteer professionals are far superior to draftees in active duty, but reserve jobs frequently seem different. > I could argue it’s almost becoming a “warrior caste” situation, where fathers serve, (at least one of) their sons serve, and so on. I’m not ready to say this is unhealthy, necessarily, but it’s a very real trend. I've seen that phrase many times, but how can that be a good thing, especially in a democracy?
  - analognoise 5y ago
    Hold on. We got lied to about Vietnam. Iraq had WMDs. Afghanistan was a budding democracy, fully equipped to stand on its own. Russia was an unstoppable modern military and we need hundreds of billions to hold them off! Now. All those people lied - buy we're blaming the civilian population for not having skin in a game which is clearly run by liars, and not "doing more" to stop these liars? We've watched it mangle generation after generation of our young people, and none of the liars are held responsible. Of course we don't want skin in the game. In a healthy democracy, these military liars wouldn't last. It's not a healthy democracy.

chiph 5y ago

That was one of the reasons I joined the USAF. Dad was in the 99th ID at the Battle of the Bulge (Purple Heart, Bronze Star) and later crossing the Ludendorff Bridge at Remagen. Granddad was a Sergeant Major in the Cheshire Regiment[1] for His Majesty doing secret stuff he never talked about. I was the underachiever of the family - serving in Germany during the Cold War.[0] But I felt compelled to follow in the family tradition, and I'm glad I did as it helped me get my shit together. Most of the people I served with had some college. There were a couple of guys in Basic with Bachelor's degrees, and we wondered why they went enlisted instead of officer. But each to their own. [0] Enjoy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpu5a0Bl8eY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpu5a0Bl8eY [1] Different unit than the author of the article was in. The Cheshire Regiment was line infantry, so full-time soldiers.