5 ms·

Does anybody else think there's room for a lightweight alternative to these two projects written in server side JavaScript?

by olegp 15y ago

pstuart 15y ago
e.g., node.js + coffeescript?
burgerbrain 15y ago
Why should the language matter? Functionality should be the feature.
- olegp 15y ago
  JavaScript is more widely accessible than Ruby or a DSL. So given that the point is all about creating recipes, the language is a defining feature. From what I can tell both Puppet and Chef seem a little over-engineered, so I feel there's a niche for a simple (solo only) tool out there. By using something like Node it would be possible to a) run with a much smaller memory footprint b) have a more event driven architecture and c) run multiple downloads or other setup related tasks in parallel.
  - count 15y ago
    What javascript engine ships on a linux server today? Ruby and Python are both packaged in by default on basically everything, V8 and other javascript engines are not. Additionally, javascript is NOT more widely accessible - if anything, learning non-DOM-manipulated javascript is INCREDIBLY painful for a beginner. Remember, these tools are for system administration and configuration management, not for writing applications.
    - focusaurus 15y ago
      While javascript engines are generally not shipped with OSes these days, it's moot because chef bundles its own ruby and ignores the ancient one in the OS. I suspect that's the case with python-based packages as well. I know HP Server Automation bundles its own python. It's easier to support a consistent python version across umpteen platforms than to debug your code in all the varying versions across so many distros and distro releases. Maybe Fabric can use the OS's python, but that's about the only example I know.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    Unless chef and puppet are having a hard time finding developers, I don't see how javascript being more accessible is relevant. Your point about them being over engineered is much more interesting than you just thinking we need yet another system but in a different language. And javascript is certainly not the only way to achieve the goals you list. Just seems like an attempt to start a language war honestly.
    - olegp 15y ago
      Chef, Puppet and configuration management systems in general aren't as widely used or known as one would think. So yes, I'd argue that using a more widely accessible language is relevant. I agree that JavaScript isn't the only way to achieve this. It's just that JavaScript is a language I like, so I thought I'd find out if there were others who shared my views. Perhaps I should have expanded more on things in my first comment. That being said, I'm pretty surprised by the negativity in the comments and downvoting.
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        I'm confused, are you proposing using Javascript instead of a DSL with a system like Chef or Puppet? That's a separate issue from what the system itself is written in... The downvoting is probably over confusion, shared by myself, about what the language used to write the system itself has to do with the merits of the system.
        olegp 15y ago
        Chef uses Ruby for recipes, I propose using JavaScript. If the system itself was written in JavaScript, then writing recipes in it would allow for more flexibility. (EDIT: perhaps having the ability to define recipes using a JSON only format would work as well)
hello_moto 15y ago
There's always room to reimplement X in your favourite programming language. It might start as a lightweight rival and yet it will continue to grow in the same trajectory as its rival eventually. I would recommend more people to read, analyze, and understand the history and nature of software.
lobster_johnson 15y ago
Puppet is quite lightweight, and since Puppet configs are written in a DSL, the language shouldn't matter. Please don't reinvent the wheel just because server-side JS is cool right now.
inopinatus 15y ago
I think you should forward this inquiry to Ted Dziuba for consideration.

Does anybody else think there's room for a lightweight alternative to these two projects written in server side JavaScript?

by olegp 15y ago

Does anybody else think there's room for a lightweight alternative to these two projects written in server side JavaScript?

pstuart 15y ago

e.g., node.js + coffeescript?

burgerbrain 15y ago

Why should the language matter? Functionality should be the feature.

olegp 15y ago
JavaScript is more widely accessible than Ruby or a DSL. So given that the point is all about creating recipes, the language is a defining feature. From what I can tell both Puppet and Chef seem a little over-engineered, so I feel there's a niche for a simple (solo only) tool out there. By using something like Node it would be possible to a) run with a much smaller memory footprint b) have a more event driven architecture and c) run multiple downloads or other setup related tasks in parallel.
- count 15y ago
  What javascript engine ships on a linux server today? Ruby and Python are both packaged in by default on basically everything, V8 and other javascript engines are not. Additionally, javascript is NOT more widely accessible - if anything, learning non-DOM-manipulated javascript is INCREDIBLY painful for a beginner. Remember, these tools are for system administration and configuration management, not for writing applications.
  - focusaurus 15y ago
    While javascript engines are generally not shipped with OSes these days, it's moot because chef bundles its own ruby and ignores the ancient one in the OS. I suspect that's the case with python-based packages as well. I know HP Server Automation bundles its own python. It's easier to support a consistent python version across umpteen platforms than to debug your code in all the varying versions across so many distros and distro releases. Maybe Fabric can use the OS's python, but that's about the only example I know.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  Unless chef and puppet are having a hard time finding developers, I don't see how javascript being more accessible is relevant. Your point about them being over engineered is much more interesting than you just thinking we need yet another system but in a different language. And javascript is certainly not the only way to achieve the goals you list. Just seems like an attempt to start a language war honestly.
  - olegp 15y ago
    Chef, Puppet and configuration management systems in general aren't as widely used or known as one would think. So yes, I'd argue that using a more widely accessible language is relevant. I agree that JavaScript isn't the only way to achieve this. It's just that JavaScript is a language I like, so I thought I'd find out if there were others who shared my views. Perhaps I should have expanded more on things in my first comment. That being said, I'm pretty surprised by the negativity in the comments and downvoting.
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      I'm confused, are you proposing using Javascript instead of a DSL with a system like Chef or Puppet? That's a separate issue from what the system itself is written in... The downvoting is probably over confusion, shared by myself, about what the language used to write the system itself has to do with the merits of the system.
      - olegp 15y ago
        Chef uses Ruby for recipes, I propose using JavaScript. If the system itself was written in JavaScript, then writing recipes in it would allow for more flexibility. (EDIT: perhaps having the ability to define recipes using a JSON only format would work as well)

hello_moto 15y ago

There's always room to reimplement X in your favourite programming language. It might start as a lightweight rival and yet it will continue to grow in the same trajectory as its rival eventually. I would recommend more people to read, analyze, and understand the history and nature of software.

lobster_johnson 15y ago

Puppet is quite lightweight, and since Puppet configs are written in a DSL, the language shouldn't matter. Please don't reinvent the wheel just because server-side JS is cool right now.

inopinatus 15y ago

I think you should forward this inquiry to Ted Dziuba for consideration.