4 ms·

What does it look like to presume a feeling for someone else? The reason I ask is because I have a hard time connecting how thinking something can rob someone.

by jerry1979 5y ago

What does it look like to presume a feeling for someone else? The reason I ask is because I have a hard time connecting how thinking something can rob someone. Also, when it comes to talking about things that happen in the mind, wouldn't hyperbolic assertions like "When you do X, you're actually robbing X" actually rob people of their own agency if the listener trusts the speaker as a legitimate authority?

em-bee 5y ago
the problem is when your presumed feeling leads to a different and possibly wrong decision.
TameAntelope 5y ago
"Oh, they're not interested in going to this event, they probably think it's stupid." "He's always talked about working more with his hands, I probably shouldn't forward him this desk job that'd otherwise be perfect for his career progression." "She'd never date a loser like me."
- fluoridation 5y ago
  It seems like you're confusing "robbing" and "not giving opportunities".
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    "not giving opportunities for the expression of agency" doesn't roll off the tongue quite the same...
    - jerry1979 5y ago
      I agree that robbing someone of their agency sounds very important; however, if I make assumptions about how someone feels, that could rob them of a potential opportunity, or it could also give them a new opportunity depending on the nature of my assumption. Either way, their capacity to act (agency) remains intact. The very important phrasing, in my estimation, can lead people to neurotically question their feelings less they "rob" someone of the capacity to act. In reality, a more lax quip such as "assuming makes an ass out of u-&-me" gives people more breathing room for their lapses in judgement.
  - mitchdoogle 5y ago
    In this context, "robbing" fits just fine. Merriam-Webster lists this as a definition of "rob": to deprive of something due, expected, or desired So to say you're "robbing someone of their agency" is the same as saying you're "depriving them of an opportunity to decide for themselves"
    - fluoridation 5y ago
      I think we've gotten too hung up on a specific word, but if you really want to bring the dictionary into this, are you saying you owe it to other people to give them as many possibilities to decide for themselves? I would have to disagree with that assertion.
      - mitchdoogle 5y ago
        Think about it in reverse. Suppose your boss is thinking of increasing your responsibilities along with a significant pay bump, but they think about it and make the assumption that you like your current role and wouldn't like any new responsibilities. Wouldn't you rather make that decision yourself? Or suppose you're single and there's an attractive acquaintance who is thinking of asking you on a date, but they overhear you talking to a friend about a date you had, and so they assume you wouldn't be interested. You don't want to make that decision yourself?
        fluoridation 5y ago
        Yes, I would like to make those decisions. No, I don't think I'm owed the right to make them. To say otherwise would be silly; if we all honored such a right we'd be forever trapped navigating an interminable labyrinth of negotiation and consensus-reaching.
        em-bee 5y ago
        reaching consensus and building unity is a good way to strengthen a community, organization or team, so no i don't think we'd be trapped. on the contrary, everyone would feel empowered. most of our problems today are coming from the fact that people are disempowered and lack the agency to improve the situation.
zestyping 5y ago
This one is unfortunately quite common: "You look unhappy. You must be expecting me to do something, and now [ I'm frustrated because I don't know what you want from me | I'm anxious about meeting the possible expectations I imagine you might have ]." If someone looks unhappy, it might not be because of you. Even if they do have a need that you could meet, they might not expect you to meet it. Instead of guessing, you could simply gently ask.

em-bee 5y ago

the problem is when your presumed feeling leads to a different and possibly wrong decision.

TameAntelope 5y ago

"Oh, they're not interested in going to this event, they probably think it's stupid." "He's always talked about working more with his hands, I probably shouldn't forward him this desk job that'd otherwise be perfect for his career progression." "She'd never date a loser like me."

fluoridation 5y ago
It seems like you're confusing "robbing" and "not giving opportunities".
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  "not giving opportunities for the expression of agency" doesn't roll off the tongue quite the same...
  - jerry1979 5y ago
    I agree that robbing someone of their agency sounds very important; however, if I make assumptions about how someone feels, that could rob them of a potential opportunity, or it could also give them a new opportunity depending on the nature of my assumption. Either way, their capacity to act (agency) remains intact. The very important phrasing, in my estimation, can lead people to neurotically question their feelings less they "rob" someone of the capacity to act. In reality, a more lax quip such as "assuming makes an ass out of u-&-me" gives people more breathing room for their lapses in judgement.
- mitchdoogle 5y ago
  In this context, "robbing" fits just fine. Merriam-Webster lists this as a definition of "rob": to deprive of something due, expected, or desired So to say you're "robbing someone of their agency" is the same as saying you're "depriving them of an opportunity to decide for themselves"
  - fluoridation 5y ago
    I think we've gotten too hung up on a specific word, but if you really want to bring the dictionary into this, are you saying you owe it to other people to give them as many possibilities to decide for themselves? I would have to disagree with that assertion.
    - mitchdoogle 5y ago
      Think about it in reverse. Suppose your boss is thinking of increasing your responsibilities along with a significant pay bump, but they think about it and make the assumption that you like your current role and wouldn't like any new responsibilities. Wouldn't you rather make that decision yourself? Or suppose you're single and there's an attractive acquaintance who is thinking of asking you on a date, but they overhear you talking to a friend about a date you had, and so they assume you wouldn't be interested. You don't want to make that decision yourself?
      - fluoridation 5y ago
        Yes, I would like to make those decisions. No, I don't think I'm owed the right to make them. To say otherwise would be silly; if we all honored such a right we'd be forever trapped navigating an interminable labyrinth of negotiation and consensus-reaching.
        em-bee 5y ago
        reaching consensus and building unity is a good way to strengthen a community, organization or team, so no i don't think we'd be trapped. on the contrary, everyone would feel empowered. most of our problems today are coming from the fact that people are disempowered and lack the agency to improve the situation.

zestyping 5y ago

This one is unfortunately quite common: "You look unhappy. You must be expecting me to do something, and now [ I'm frustrated because I don't know what you want from me | I'm anxious about meeting the possible expectations I imagine you might have ]." If someone looks unhappy, it might not be because of you. Even if they do have a need that you could meet, they might not expect you to meet it. Instead of guessing, you could simply gently ask.