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When I said "freedom of speech" I'm not referring to legal rights. I'm referring to whether or not the nature of our society is such that holders of divergent v

When I said "freedom of speech" I'm not referring to legal rights. I'm referring to whether or not the nature of our society is such that holders of divergent views are not subject to shaming or ostracization by any substantial subgroup, as long as their views are politely and respectfully expressed.

Jcowell 5y ago
That’s seems dumb to me. Now I question under this “freedom of speech” should I be allowed to make that first sentence ? For all intents and purposes I am “shaming” your view. Flagging would be arguably ostracizing. Would the inability to do this mean my own freedom of speech to shame your views would be infringed? It seems like an unsustainable paradox to me that falls apart in various use cases that cannot function in society as we know. At least not if we seek to ban/prosecute things such as child pornography, revenge porn, libel, etc.
- da39a3ee 5y ago
  I've been thinking about this. To be honest, you're not the first person to tell me that my usage of "freedom of speech" is incoherent. I think, when I say "freedom of speech", what I really mean is perhaps more what you'd call "open mindedness". Specifically: I do not shun or disrespect the progressives with whom I work. I don't try to police the language that they use. I feel unwelcome on company chat channels because everybody is expressing progressive viewpoints, so it hardly seems like it's going to go well to say "Hi, nice to meet you. I'm a liberal but I'm, um, not actually on board with all this woke stuff". But I don't even hold that against them most of the time, I just try to forget that the people I'm working with might also be expressing intolerant woke views on the #general chat channel. So what I'm looking for is for them to extend the same respect that I extend to them, to people like me who don't share their views. And they don't: they are so certain that theirs is the only correct viewpoint.

Jcowell 5y ago

That’s seems dumb to me. Now I question under this “freedom of speech” should I be allowed to make that first sentence ? For all intents and purposes I am “shaming” your view. Flagging would be arguably ostracizing. Would the inability to do this mean my own freedom of speech to shame your views would be infringed? It seems like an unsustainable paradox to me that falls apart in various use cases that cannot function in society as we know. At least not if we seek to ban/prosecute things such as child pornography, revenge porn, libel, etc.

da39a3ee 5y ago
I've been thinking about this. To be honest, you're not the first person to tell me that my usage of "freedom of speech" is incoherent. I think, when I say "freedom of speech", what I really mean is perhaps more what you'd call "open mindedness". Specifically: I do not shun or disrespect the progressives with whom I work. I don't try to police the language that they use. I feel unwelcome on company chat channels because everybody is expressing progressive viewpoints, so it hardly seems like it's going to go well to say "Hi, nice to meet you. I'm a liberal but I'm, um, not actually on board with all this woke stuff". But I don't even hold that against them most of the time, I just try to forget that the people I'm working with might also be expressing intolerant woke views on the #general chat channel. So what I'm looking for is for them to extend the same respect that I extend to them, to people like me who don't share their views. And they don't: they are so certain that theirs is the only correct viewpoint.