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> Proper investigations will be done and Russia will be brought to justice in front of a court of its peers As the US passed a law to invade the Hague in case

> Proper investigations will be done and Russia will be brought to justice in front of a court of its peers As the US passed a law to invade the Hague in case the ICC ever tries to accuse the US of war crimes, I'm assuming the US is not a "peer". > Defending this monstrous state with your "concerned" deflections while mothers and children lay raped and dead on the earth of Ukraine is not defensible. Please don't do this here. Israel was murdering Palestinian children in the West Bank and Gaza last year, backed by the US. Accounts of that posted here which managed not to be flagged were heavily "defended" with concerned deflections, where are your comments all over those threads to not deflect and do that here? Or the ongoing Saudi massacres of Yemeni, which the US backs and are happening now. Or the US drone attack on children in Kabul last August? When are those war crime trials starting?

jesterson 5y ago
Excellent points, but he seems to be a typical product of mass media. If it's not reiterated on mass media, it doesn't exist. Ignorance is bliss indeed :(
emptysongglass 5y ago
I've called out whataboutism here before and I'll do it again here. It offers no solutions, only deflections and tarpits of inaction. No one is saying any of those atrocities that occurred were defensible, least of all me. But I am deeply concerned by the defense of an imperial power in its twilight that believes invasion in the 21st century is a sound method for solving disputes. Russia is the aggressor here. Apologies are not needed for its behavior or appropriate when Mariupol has been turned into a new Grozny and Odessa is next.
- AnAmericanPOV64 5y ago
  The "whataboutism" defense has basically become codeword for "how dare you point out our hypocrisy!" Especially for people in South America or the Middle East, why should they care about war crimes in Europe when Europeans/Americans have been committing war crimes or supporting people who do in their regions?
  - emptysongglass 5y ago
    This isn't the topic of discussion of this thread. What do you propose to achieve with this line of questioning? I live in the EU. Most nations of the EU (all?) have quit invading other sovereign nations to solve their disputes, especially overt landgrabs. What exactly do you intend to convey by pointing out hypocrisy here? Do you have a solution to propose? Should we/I stop caring about an aggressive state power at our doorstep because hypocrisy exists?
    - AnAmericanPOV64 5y ago
      >This isn't the topic of discussion of this thread. This is true, my intention isn't to derail the topic of the thread. Just pointing out that "whataboutism" is often just a defense for "stop pointing out my hypocrisy". >Most nations of the EU (all?) have quit invading other sovereign nations to solve their disputes, especially overt landgrabs. Unless its in Palestine or Western Sahara? >Do you have a solution to propose? Yes, perhaps if the West wasn't so hypocritical on ignoring its own numerous war crimes, then countries like China/India and entire regions like South America/Middle East would be more willing to support the West in conflicts like Ukraine. Its obviously too late for that now, but something to keep in mind for the future. Its a tangential point, but you can't expect people to help you or care when you refuse to show them the same sympathy.
      - fer 4y ago
        Are Israel and Morocco in the EU?

jesterson 5y ago

Excellent points, but he seems to be a typical product of mass media. If it's not reiterated on mass media, it doesn't exist. Ignorance is bliss indeed :(

emptysongglass 5y ago

I've called out whataboutism here before and I'll do it again here. It offers no solutions, only deflections and tarpits of inaction. No one is saying any of those atrocities that occurred were defensible, least of all me. But I am deeply concerned by the defense of an imperial power in its twilight that believes invasion in the 21st century is a sound method for solving disputes. Russia is the aggressor here. Apologies are not needed for its behavior or appropriate when Mariupol has been turned into a new Grozny and Odessa is next.

AnAmericanPOV64 5y ago
The "whataboutism" defense has basically become codeword for "how dare you point out our hypocrisy!" Especially for people in South America or the Middle East, why should they care about war crimes in Europe when Europeans/Americans have been committing war crimes or supporting people who do in their regions?
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  This isn't the topic of discussion of this thread. What do you propose to achieve with this line of questioning? I live in the EU. Most nations of the EU (all?) have quit invading other sovereign nations to solve their disputes, especially overt landgrabs. What exactly do you intend to convey by pointing out hypocrisy here? Do you have a solution to propose? Should we/I stop caring about an aggressive state power at our doorstep because hypocrisy exists?
  - AnAmericanPOV64 5y ago
    >This isn't the topic of discussion of this thread. This is true, my intention isn't to derail the topic of the thread. Just pointing out that "whataboutism" is often just a defense for "stop pointing out my hypocrisy". >Most nations of the EU (all?) have quit invading other sovereign nations to solve their disputes, especially overt landgrabs. Unless its in Palestine or Western Sahara? >Do you have a solution to propose? Yes, perhaps if the West wasn't so hypocritical on ignoring its own numerous war crimes, then countries like China/India and entire regions like South America/Middle East would be more willing to support the West in conflicts like Ukraine. Its obviously too late for that now, but something to keep in mind for the future. Its a tangential point, but you can't expect people to help you or care when you refuse to show them the same sympathy.
    - fer 4y ago
      Are Israel and Morocco in the EU?