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I don’t care about speeders. Realistically, they are not making me less safe. What I do care about are these things instead: 1. People on their phones not pa

I don’t care about speeders. Realistically, they are not making me less safe. What I do care about are these things instead: 1. People on their phones not paying attention while driving. 2. Cops in effectively unmarked cars doing traffic duty and causing ripple effects when they suddenly enter the highway. 3. Slow drivers in the left lane toodling along and impeding traffic, forcing people to make dangerous lane changes 4. People who lift their vehicle to the point it both blinds everyone at night with its light and exceeds bumper height restrictions so would decapitate me in a crash with my normal car. 5. Motorcyclists with no gear whipping between lanes, lane splitting, and on the shoulders doing 20+ over the speed of traffic (although lets be honest, this problem will eventually take care of itself). Cars speeding (which is mostly a steady rate of 80 on most interstates which inexplicably have a speed limit of 65) is not something I am even remotely concerned with on the road.

Miner49er 5y ago
> I don’t care about speeders. Realistically, they are not making me less safe. I find this very hard to believe. Do you have a reason for believing this? Also, what about when you're a pedestrian or for cyclists?
raldi 5y ago
Don’t forget cars stopped in bike and bus lanes, or across sidewalks or crosswalks
exabrial 5y ago
I would add to your list: Following Distance
- wildrhythms 5y ago
  One of my favorite videos of all time on this topic: Traffic Waves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGFqfTCL2fs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGFqfTCL2fs (Not new information, but a fun video, and it's something truckers have known about for decades)
tenebrisalietum 5y ago
If everyone is driving X, and some jerk who's driving X+20 is weaving around dangerously just to try to get 1 car ahead of the pack, that's the behavior I'd like to be able to report. I don't care what X is.
- tristor 5y ago
  The thing about this behavior is, it is mostly impossible in 4-wheeled vehicles due to traffic density. My concern with motorcyclists doing it, which have this unique capability, is that they are going to cause an accident which will scar whichever driver they end up colliding with for life and further congest the roadways due to what is objectively stupid behavior. It's also never motorcyclists with full gear on, it's always some dude on a squid bike in a t-shirt and shorts w/ flip-flops and no helmet doing this incredibly stupid and dangerous stuff.
nonrandomstring 5y ago
> People on their phones not paying attention while driving. I urge you all to watch "From One Second To The Next" by Werner Herzog then come back with a good argument for why being caught using a phone at the wheel shouldn't mean an instant lifetime driving ban. edit: (authoritarian dystopia afterthought) - of course, for those of you who love locked-down stuff, you could obviously build self denouncement )or at least deactivation) right into the phone itself through context awareness.
- oceanplexian 5y ago
  I've heard stories of people who took a sip of coffee or sneezed and killed a pedestrian, it doesn't mean that that drinking a morning cup of coffee and driving should be illegal. It means that we need to take a holistic view of risk and make decisions that are adapted to a particular situation. Personally, I think if we were serious about saving lives, instead of trying to idiot-proof cars, we need to stop letting idiots drive cars. Reading a message on your phone in a holder directly in your field of vision, on an empty, limited-access highway in good weather carries virtually no risk. Going the posted speed limit and "obeying the law" on a road covered in black ice or on a foggy morning could be insanely dangerous and reckless, but most drivers receive zero training on those situations (At least in the USA). We need better training and tougher driver licensing standards, not thousands of rules in a futile attempt to stop people from doing every conceivable stupid thing.
dahart 5y ago
Strange to worry about motorcycle lane splitting and dismiss speeding, this is a list of complaints and emotional fears rather than validated safety concerns (#1 is 100% true, the others are questionable). Speeding is most definitely a much bigger threat to you than motorcyclists. Speeding is one of the largest behavioral contributors to traffic fatalities, right next to drunk driving and not wearing a seatbelt. Here are the stats in the US, and similar reports have been published by many countries globally: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813266#page17 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... BTW, keep in mind that physical damage is proportional to the square of velocity. A collision at 80mph is 50% more energy than at 65mph, even though it’s only 23% faster.
- tristor 5y ago
  > Speeding is one of the largest behavioral contributors to traffic fatalities Yes, this is true. In every study that's been done on this matter in the US, it's been determined that drivers who speed have a lower probability of getting into an accident, but when they do it has a higher probability of being fatal. At basic pass, this makes sense, as there's more energy involved in the crash if one or both drivers are at higher rates of speed. Why this doesn't bother me, is because I'm not concerned with behaviors that increase or decrease fatality, I'm concerned with behaviors that increase or decrease the risk of an accident happening in the first place. Speeding does not cause accidents, and all of the evidence supports this. The motorcyclist /does/ cause accidents, generally fatal accidents (although only for themselves).
  - dahart 5y ago
    Also seems strange to dismiss outcomes in favor of incidents. Most incidents are slow-speed fender-benders that don’t hurt anyone. You’re skewing the data to worry more about those than whether you actually get hurt. Same is true of worrying about motorcyclists. If they hurt themselves, it doesn’t affect you. If you care about whether you’ll get hurt, which sounded like your initial premise, then it’s a good idea to worry more about the statistics of outcomes than of whether there’s an accident or not, especially if many accidents are injury-free, right?
BeetleB 5y ago
> Slow drivers in the left lane toodling along and impeding traffic, forcing people to make dangerous lane changes In most cities, the left lane is not designated as a faster lane, unless on a highway. Most accidents occur in cities and not highways. Putting this in the list seems silly. Also, at least on the highways in/near my city, people are as likely to overtake on the right than on the left (e.g. if a car is in a center lane, it's not a given that other cars will overtake on the left). This is a strong signal that it's not merely the slow drivers that are the problem.
- tristor 5y ago
  > In most cities, the left lane is not designated as a faster lane, unless on a highway. Most accidents occur in cities and not highways. Putting this in the list seems silly. In most US cities, most of the driving is done on highways. The typical driving pathway for a commuter in most major US cities is to drive on surface streets from their home to the nearest major highway artery (which is likely also an interstate highway, but may not be), merge onto the highway, and go on the highway (possibly changing highways) until they reach the correct exit for their destination. So, yeah, most driving is actually done on highways, and this is where I'm most concerned with how others drive. It's also pretty much always at higher speeds than surface streets, so as other commenters are pointing out, the consequences are more severe when an accident does occur. Being forced to overtake on the right because a driver obstinately refuses to get out of the left lane despite it being a passing lane and going below the speed of traffic is exactly the issue I'm pointing out, because overtaking on the right is more dangerous. Either /everyone/ slows and a conga line forms or everyone passes the slow driver on the right. The slow driver should not be in the left lane and in fact it's illegal and signs are posted on nearly every American highway that either says "Slower traffic keep right." or "Left lane for passing only." (depending on state/locality).
  - BeetleB 5y ago
    > In most US cities, most of the driving is done on highways. Blatantly false, given that a town of 100,000 is still a city, and most cities don't even have a highway running through them. And as I said, given that roughly 50% still overtake on the right when the left lane is clear, they are as much the problem as the slow drivers.

Miner49er 5y ago

> I don’t care about speeders. Realistically, they are not making me less safe. I find this very hard to believe. Do you have a reason for believing this? Also, what about when you're a pedestrian or for cyclists?

raldi 5y ago

Don’t forget cars stopped in bike and bus lanes, or across sidewalks or crosswalks

exabrial 5y ago

I would add to your list: Following Distance

wildrhythms 5y ago
One of my favorite videos of all time on this topic: Traffic Waves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGFqfTCL2fs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGFqfTCL2fs (Not new information, but a fun video, and it's something truckers have known about for decades)

tenebrisalietum 5y ago

If everyone is driving X, and some jerk who's driving X+20 is weaving around dangerously just to try to get 1 car ahead of the pack, that's the behavior I'd like to be able to report. I don't care what X is.

tristor 5y ago
The thing about this behavior is, it is mostly impossible in 4-wheeled vehicles due to traffic density. My concern with motorcyclists doing it, which have this unique capability, is that they are going to cause an accident which will scar whichever driver they end up colliding with for life and further congest the roadways due to what is objectively stupid behavior. It's also never motorcyclists with full gear on, it's always some dude on a squid bike in a t-shirt and shorts w/ flip-flops and no helmet doing this incredibly stupid and dangerous stuff.

nonrandomstring 5y ago

> People on their phones not paying attention while driving. I urge you all to watch "From One Second To The Next" by Werner Herzog then come back with a good argument for why being caught using a phone at the wheel shouldn't mean an instant lifetime driving ban. edit: (authoritarian dystopia afterthought) - of course, for those of you who love locked-down stuff, you could obviously build self denouncement )or at least deactivation) right into the phone itself through context awareness.

oceanplexian 5y ago
I've heard stories of people who took a sip of coffee or sneezed and killed a pedestrian, it doesn't mean that that drinking a morning cup of coffee and driving should be illegal. It means that we need to take a holistic view of risk and make decisions that are adapted to a particular situation. Personally, I think if we were serious about saving lives, instead of trying to idiot-proof cars, we need to stop letting idiots drive cars. Reading a message on your phone in a holder directly in your field of vision, on an empty, limited-access highway in good weather carries virtually no risk. Going the posted speed limit and "obeying the law" on a road covered in black ice or on a foggy morning could be insanely dangerous and reckless, but most drivers receive zero training on those situations (At least in the USA). We need better training and tougher driver licensing standards, not thousands of rules in a futile attempt to stop people from doing every conceivable stupid thing.

dahart 5y ago

Strange to worry about motorcycle lane splitting and dismiss speeding, this is a list of complaints and emotional fears rather than validated safety concerns (#1 is 100% true, the others are questionable). Speeding is most definitely a much bigger threat to you than motorcyclists. Speeding is one of the largest behavioral contributors to traffic fatalities, right next to drunk driving and not wearing a seatbelt. Here are the stats in the US, and similar reports have been published by many countries globally: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813266#page17 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... BTW, keep in mind that physical damage is proportional to the square of velocity. A collision at 80mph is 50% more energy than at 65mph, even though it’s only 23% faster.

tristor 5y ago
> Speeding is one of the largest behavioral contributors to traffic fatalities Yes, this is true. In every study that's been done on this matter in the US, it's been determined that drivers who speed have a lower probability of getting into an accident, but when they do it has a higher probability of being fatal. At basic pass, this makes sense, as there's more energy involved in the crash if one or both drivers are at higher rates of speed. Why this doesn't bother me, is because I'm not concerned with behaviors that increase or decrease fatality, I'm concerned with behaviors that increase or decrease the risk of an accident happening in the first place. Speeding does not cause accidents, and all of the evidence supports this. The motorcyclist /does/ cause accidents, generally fatal accidents (although only for themselves).
- dahart 5y ago
  Also seems strange to dismiss outcomes in favor of incidents. Most incidents are slow-speed fender-benders that don’t hurt anyone. You’re skewing the data to worry more about those than whether you actually get hurt. Same is true of worrying about motorcyclists. If they hurt themselves, it doesn’t affect you. If you care about whether you’ll get hurt, which sounded like your initial premise, then it’s a good idea to worry more about the statistics of outcomes than of whether there’s an accident or not, especially if many accidents are injury-free, right?

BeetleB 5y ago

> Slow drivers in the left lane toodling along and impeding traffic, forcing people to make dangerous lane changes In most cities, the left lane is not designated as a faster lane, unless on a highway. Most accidents occur in cities and not highways. Putting this in the list seems silly. Also, at least on the highways in/near my city, people are as likely to overtake on the right than on the left (e.g. if a car is in a center lane, it's not a given that other cars will overtake on the left). This is a strong signal that it's not merely the slow drivers that are the problem.

tristor 5y ago
> In most cities, the left lane is not designated as a faster lane, unless on a highway. Most accidents occur in cities and not highways. Putting this in the list seems silly. In most US cities, most of the driving is done on highways. The typical driving pathway for a commuter in most major US cities is to drive on surface streets from their home to the nearest major highway artery (which is likely also an interstate highway, but may not be), merge onto the highway, and go on the highway (possibly changing highways) until they reach the correct exit for their destination. So, yeah, most driving is actually done on highways, and this is where I'm most concerned with how others drive. It's also pretty much always at higher speeds than surface streets, so as other commenters are pointing out, the consequences are more severe when an accident does occur. Being forced to overtake on the right because a driver obstinately refuses to get out of the left lane despite it being a passing lane and going below the speed of traffic is exactly the issue I'm pointing out, because overtaking on the right is more dangerous. Either /everyone/ slows and a conga line forms or everyone passes the slow driver on the right. The slow driver should not be in the left lane and in fact it's illegal and signs are posted on nearly every American highway that either says "Slower traffic keep right." or "Left lane for passing only." (depending on state/locality).
- BeetleB 5y ago
  > In most US cities, most of the driving is done on highways. Blatantly false, given that a town of 100,000 is still a city, and most cities don't even have a highway running through them. And as I said, given that roughly 50% still overtake on the right when the left lane is clear, they are as much the problem as the slow drivers.