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Interesting choice of Victorian occult fluffery. The author of the piece does describe it as fantasy, but it's responsible for a whole host of exciting real-wor

Interesting choice of Victorian occult fluffery. The author of the piece does describe it as fantasy, but it's responsible for a whole host of exciting real-world madness in the 20th century and afterwards. It's important to recognise that until the internet made it much easier for people to discuss ideas and find counterarguments, there were large numbers of people floating around claiming that the contents of these books were not only beyond reproach, but that <insert group invented in the 20th century> was an unbroken descendant of one of the mythical groups invented by Victorian pseudohistorians.

nonrandomstring 5y ago
You're absolutely right. And that is precisely their charm to a mature mind. When I described the titles as "unthinkable to the modern sensibility" I was dodging mention of such topics as the "Physiognomy of the Pygmy peoples" or "Universal suffrage by all necessary means" - which are basically books on racism and terrorism, for example as espoused in the works of Emma Goldman. Old books are dangerous. Ideas are dangerous. Our modern ideas no less so, and to claim otherwise is a "parochialism of the present". But ones understanding of the world will be much richer, and intellect fortified by at least knowing of these books and ideas, Otherwise we may as well join the ranks of Firemen of Bradbury's 451 brigade.
- bencollier49 5y ago
  Oh, I don't disagree. That said, some of them stand up to time better than others, in as much as they can contain genuinely novel ideas, by the standard of most modern people. Other books and authors are just infuriating - the memes they set running weren't necessarily a great thing the first time around, and did a lot of damage to collective human reason. Eliphas Levi immediately springs to mind; there are plenty of others. "Illuminatus!" probably falls into this category, but I don't think that was R.A. Wilson's fault.
  - nonrandomstring 5y ago
    Not a book Ben, but if you haven't already heard Jon Ronsons's audio "origin stories of the culture wars" in a BBC series Things Fell Apart [1], I'd heartily recommend it. He says basically what you're saying, and traces the lineage of exasperating _bad_ ideas that won't just gracefully die (which is a theme in lots of his writing). [1] https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2021/radio-4-jon-ronson-things-fell-apart https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2021/radio-4-jon-ronson-thin...
    - bencollier49 5y ago
      Jon Ronson is a very clever man and we don't see enough of him these days. I'll listen to that.

nonrandomstring 5y ago

You're absolutely right. And that is precisely their charm to a mature mind. When I described the titles as "unthinkable to the modern sensibility" I was dodging mention of such topics as the "Physiognomy of the Pygmy peoples" or "Universal suffrage by all necessary means" - which are basically books on racism and terrorism, for example as espoused in the works of Emma Goldman. Old books are dangerous. Ideas are dangerous. Our modern ideas no less so, and to claim otherwise is a "parochialism of the present". But ones understanding of the world will be much richer, and intellect fortified by at least knowing of these books and ideas, Otherwise we may as well join the ranks of Firemen of Bradbury's 451 brigade.

bencollier49 5y ago
Oh, I don't disagree. That said, some of them stand up to time better than others, in as much as they can contain genuinely novel ideas, by the standard of most modern people. Other books and authors are just infuriating - the memes they set running weren't necessarily a great thing the first time around, and did a lot of damage to collective human reason. Eliphas Levi immediately springs to mind; there are plenty of others. "Illuminatus!" probably falls into this category, but I don't think that was R.A. Wilson's fault.
- nonrandomstring 5y ago
  Not a book Ben, but if you haven't already heard Jon Ronsons's audio "origin stories of the culture wars" in a BBC series Things Fell Apart [1], I'd heartily recommend it. He says basically what you're saying, and traces the lineage of exasperating _bad_ ideas that won't just gracefully die (which is a theme in lots of his writing). [1] https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2021/radio-4-jon-ronson-things-fell-apart https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2021/radio-4-jon-ronson-thin...
  - bencollier49 5y ago
    Jon Ronson is a very clever man and we don't see enough of him these days. I'll listen to that.