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A truly cheap and revolutionary scalable solution has to start and focus only on net storage. Not because its lucrative, but because its the only place you can

A truly cheap and revolutionary scalable solution has to start and focus only on net storage. Not because its lucrative, but because its the only place you can meaningfully compete before you have the economy of scale that lithium-ion has. If you drop the floor out of the that market, the other industries will come calling you.

adrianN 5y ago
It seems easier for a startup to use markets that can tolerate higher costs to bootstrap a production pipeline. Costs of the raw materials might be cheaper for this battery type, but competing with the huge factories for current battery tech is still difficult for a small company.
krasin 5y ago
Different markets require different tradeoffs. Flying things can tolerate higher cost, if it comes with a higher energy density, ability to charge/discharge quickly and (in some cases) higher cycle life. In this respect, sulfur-ion batteries might be viable even at 10x price compared to cheapest batteries on the market. Grid storage is all about the price per kWh. Sodium-ion batteries ([1]) might become a good fit, while they are absolutely useless for electric airplanes / drones. 1. https://www.catl.com/en/news/665.html https://www.catl.com/en/news/665.html
- ieee2 5y ago
  They promis price of around 30-40 EUR/kWh, because of: Sulfur is an industrial byproduct – no harmful mining required. This drives material cost down to 0.20 EUR/kg (compared to state of the art cathode material NMC811 at 20.00 EUR/kg). No NMC needed. https://www.theion.de/ https://www.theion.de/
pengaru 5y ago
Maybe you chase that after proving the product in aerospace where the pockets are deep and standards high? It's not like lithium-ion owns aerospace, economy of scale doesn't give it the required energy density for an electric 747. Though I'm unclear on if this development opens up that possibility either.
- zardo 5y ago
  I would think flying RC devices is the place to start if you want to scale up quickly. Passenger aircraft is going to require years of testing with no guarantee the plane goes into production.

adrianN 5y ago

It seems easier for a startup to use markets that can tolerate higher costs to bootstrap a production pipeline. Costs of the raw materials might be cheaper for this battery type, but competing with the huge factories for current battery tech is still difficult for a small company.

krasin 5y ago

Different markets require different tradeoffs. Flying things can tolerate higher cost, if it comes with a higher energy density, ability to charge/discharge quickly and (in some cases) higher cycle life. In this respect, sulfur-ion batteries might be viable even at 10x price compared to cheapest batteries on the market. Grid storage is all about the price per kWh. Sodium-ion batteries ([1]) might become a good fit, while they are absolutely useless for electric airplanes / drones. 1. https://www.catl.com/en/news/665.html https://www.catl.com/en/news/665.html

ieee2 5y ago
They promis price of around 30-40 EUR/kWh, because of: Sulfur is an industrial byproduct – no harmful mining required. This drives material cost down to 0.20 EUR/kg (compared to state of the art cathode material NMC811 at 20.00 EUR/kg). No NMC needed. https://www.theion.de/ https://www.theion.de/

pengaru 5y ago

Maybe you chase that after proving the product in aerospace where the pockets are deep and standards high? It's not like lithium-ion owns aerospace, economy of scale doesn't give it the required energy density for an electric 747. Though I'm unclear on if this development opens up that possibility either.

zardo 5y ago
I would think flying RC devices is the place to start if you want to scale up quickly. Passenger aircraft is going to require years of testing with no guarantee the plane goes into production.