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> The Muslims greatly suffered under the Mongol Empire's trail of destruction, and the atrocities the latter committed have been well documented. Hmmm.... I'm

> The Muslims greatly suffered under the Mongol Empire's trail of destruction, and the atrocities the latter committed have been well documented. Hmmm.... I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate here or achieve with your comment. You're trying to say that the Mongol Empire's trail of destruction is "worse" than the Islamic Empire's trail of destruction? > it is a great page in our history to have dealt the first major blow to them in the Battle of Ain Jalut[1], saving the world from God knows what horrid things they would have continued had they been left unchallenged. "our" history? "saving the world from them"? Forgive me, but do you feel entirely comfortable saying such things? Since you've made the statement "God knows what horrid things they would have continued had they been left unchallenged.", I wonder what's your take on the historian Niall Ferguson's remark that the Islamic Conquest of South Asia was the largest genocide in human history. I wouldn't be surprised if others had the opposite opinion to you and would have wished the Mongols had done more to protect the world. Are you able to see both sides of these equations?

xeromal 5y ago
Yeah, conquering peoples that don't need conquering are pretty equal offenders in my book. I'm sure some are more brutal than others, but they're all trying to do the same thing. Subjugate people that don't want it. The Romans, The Muslims, The Mongols, The British and many other European countries, and the US all are the bad guys in many humans' sad stories. I'm not sure what the comment you're replying to is trying to accomplish either. I've seen the Mongols described as a necessary evil to halt the Islamic conquest of the world. Khan himself thought he was God's scourge on the world for all our sins.
deleted 5y ago
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pfdietz 5y ago
The destruction of the libraries of Baghdad was a tragedy for the entire world.
- robinsoh 5y ago
  > The destruction of the libraries of Baghdad was a tragedy for the entire world. Yes. And I'm sure you'll agree the same for the the multiple genocides, organized mass rape and destruction of numerous non-Islamic universities in South Asia and violent annihilation of indigenous peoples (not just their ethnic groups, but also their original cultures and religions) in South East Asia. It seems to be happening even right now with Indonesian Muslims annihilating and colonizing West Papuan tribal populations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgllbBzZxxM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgllbBzZxxM
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    [deleted]
azth 5y ago
I'm saying that the Muslims did the world a favor by saving them from the Mongol destruction. Niall Ferguoson sounds quite biased and exaggerative.
- robinsoh 5y ago
  > I'm saying that the Muslims did the world a favor by saving them from the Mongol destruction. And I'm forced to repeat my question. Who is saving whom? The world? Because it appears the millions who got raped and genocided by "the Muslims" would be likely to strongly to disagree with you. I hope you don't think Niall Fergusson's view is an isolated opinion. Most historians appear to share similar viewpoints. Here's a quote from Will Durant. " „The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history.“ — Will Durant, book The Story of Civilization Will Durant, The Story of Civilization: Our Oriental Heritage page 459. The Story of Civilization (1935–1975), I - Our Oriental Heritage (1935) " Interestingly enough, there is written history on this, provided by Islamic historians of the period themselves! Because the Islamic historians were "proudly" chronicling of the conquest. “The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave markets and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800 AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by sword during this period.” Francois Gautier in his book ‘Rewriting Indian History’ (1996) wrote: “The massacres perpetuated by Muslims in India are unparalleled in history, bigger than the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis; or the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks; more extensive even than the slaughter of the South American native populations by the invading Spanish and Portuguese.”
  - azth 5y ago
    The Muslims saved the rest of the world from the Mongol trail of destruction. Millions did not get raped or genocided by the Muslims, not sure where you're getting that information from. Muslims have had rules of engagements since the early days of Islam, which included even not destroying trees and plants, let alone prohibition of killing and raping. Forced conversions are also against Islam. Those sources you're citing seem quite anti-Islamic and biased, and ludicrous. For example, googling the following phrase: > The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus Results in pro-Hindu, anti-Muslim propaganda websites. Show me which "Islamic historians and scholars" have recorded with glee and pride any slaughters. If those indeed did occur, you'll find the Islamic scholars the first call them out and condone them. It seems you're just copy pasting false anti-Muslim propaganda. We know what the British Empire did in India and the surrounding areas, and they want to blame their atrocities on others. Let alone that we know that Europe "proudly" holds the greatest number of deaths and destruction caused by a war by means of WWI and WWII. And now we're seeing the Ukraine-Russia war. Some refutations: http://sciencewislam.blogspot.com/2017/06/blog-post.html http://sciencewislam.blogspot.com/2017/06/blog-post.html https://ar.quora.com/%D9%87%D9%84-%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%A3%D8%AD%D8%AF-%D9%8A%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%85-%D8%B9%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D9%81%D9%8A https://ar.quora.com/%D9%87%D9%84-%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%A3%D8%AD%... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OCtKKj0XPE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OCtKKj0XPE

xeromal 5y ago

Yeah, conquering peoples that don't need conquering are pretty equal offenders in my book. I'm sure some are more brutal than others, but they're all trying to do the same thing. Subjugate people that don't want it. The Romans, The Muslims, The Mongols, The British and many other European countries, and the US all are the bad guys in many humans' sad stories. I'm not sure what the comment you're replying to is trying to accomplish either. I've seen the Mongols described as a necessary evil to halt the Islamic conquest of the world. Khan himself thought he was God's scourge on the world for all our sins.

deleted 5y ago

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pfdietz 5y ago

The destruction of the libraries of Baghdad was a tragedy for the entire world.

robinsoh 5y ago
> The destruction of the libraries of Baghdad was a tragedy for the entire world. Yes. And I'm sure you'll agree the same for the the multiple genocides, organized mass rape and destruction of numerous non-Islamic universities in South Asia and violent annihilation of indigenous peoples (not just their ethnic groups, but also their original cultures and religions) in South East Asia. It seems to be happening even right now with Indonesian Muslims annihilating and colonizing West Papuan tribal populations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgllbBzZxxM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgllbBzZxxM
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

azth 5y ago

I'm saying that the Muslims did the world a favor by saving them from the Mongol destruction. Niall Ferguoson sounds quite biased and exaggerative.

robinsoh 5y ago
> I'm saying that the Muslims did the world a favor by saving them from the Mongol destruction. And I'm forced to repeat my question. Who is saving whom? The world? Because it appears the millions who got raped and genocided by "the Muslims" would be likely to strongly to disagree with you. I hope you don't think Niall Fergusson's view is an isolated opinion. Most historians appear to share similar viewpoints. Here's a quote from Will Durant. " „The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history.“ — Will Durant, book The Story of Civilization Will Durant, The Story of Civilization: Our Oriental Heritage page 459. The Story of Civilization (1935–1975), I - Our Oriental Heritage (1935) " Interestingly enough, there is written history on this, provided by Islamic historians of the period themselves! Because the Islamic historians were "proudly" chronicling of the conquest. “The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave markets and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800 AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by sword during this period.” Francois Gautier in his book ‘Rewriting Indian History’ (1996) wrote: “The massacres perpetuated by Muslims in India are unparalleled in history, bigger than the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis; or the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks; more extensive even than the slaughter of the South American native populations by the invading Spanish and Portuguese.”
- azth 5y ago
  The Muslims saved the rest of the world from the Mongol trail of destruction. Millions did not get raped or genocided by the Muslims, not sure where you're getting that information from. Muslims have had rules of engagements since the early days of Islam, which included even not destroying trees and plants, let alone prohibition of killing and raping. Forced conversions are also against Islam. Those sources you're citing seem quite anti-Islamic and biased, and ludicrous. For example, googling the following phrase: > The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus Results in pro-Hindu, anti-Muslim propaganda websites. Show me which "Islamic historians and scholars" have recorded with glee and pride any slaughters. If those indeed did occur, you'll find the Islamic scholars the first call them out and condone them. It seems you're just copy pasting false anti-Muslim propaganda. We know what the British Empire did in India and the surrounding areas, and they want to blame their atrocities on others. Let alone that we know that Europe "proudly" holds the greatest number of deaths and destruction caused by a war by means of WWI and WWII. And now we're seeing the Ukraine-Russia war. Some refutations: http://sciencewislam.blogspot.com/2017/06/blog-post.html http://sciencewislam.blogspot.com/2017/06/blog-post.html https://ar.quora.com/%D9%87%D9%84-%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%A3%D8%AD%D8%AF-%D9%8A%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%85-%D8%B9%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D9%81%D9%8A https://ar.quora.com/%D9%87%D9%84-%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%A3%D8%AD%... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OCtKKj0XPE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OCtKKj0XPE