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The Muslims greatly suffered under the Mongol Empire's trail of destruction, and the atrocities the latter committed have been well documented. Yet, it is a gre

by azth 5y ago

The Muslims greatly suffered under the Mongol Empire's trail of destruction, and the atrocities the latter committed have been well documented. Yet, it is a great page in our history to have dealt the first major blow to them in the Battle of Ain Jalut[1], saving the world from God knows what horrid things they would have continued had they been left unchallenged. > The battle marked the height of the extent of Mongol conquests, and was the first time a Mongol advance was permanently beaten back in direct combat on the battlefield > The Muslim Mamluks defeated the Mongols in all battles except one. Beside a victory to the Mamluks in Ain Jalut, the Mongols were defeated in the second Battle of Homs, Elbistan and Marj al-Saffar. After five battles with the Mamluks, the Mongols only won at the Battle of Wadi al-Khaznadar. They never returned to Syria again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ain_Jalut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ain_Jalut

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robinsoh 5y ago
> The Muslims greatly suffered under the Mongol Empire's trail of destruction, and the atrocities the latter committed have been well documented. Hmmm.... I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate here or achieve with your comment. You're trying to say that the Mongol Empire's trail of destruction is "worse" than the Islamic Empire's trail of destruction? > it is a great page in our history to have dealt the first major blow to them in the Battle of Ain Jalut[1], saving the world from God knows what horrid things they would have continued had they been left unchallenged. "our" history? "saving the world from them"? Forgive me, but do you feel entirely comfortable saying such things? Since you've made the statement "God knows what horrid things they would have continued had they been left unchallenged.", I wonder what's your take on the historian Niall Ferguson's remark that the Islamic Conquest of South Asia was the largest genocide in human history. I wouldn't be surprised if others had the opposite opinion to you and would have wished the Mongols had done more to protect the world. Are you able to see both sides of these equations?
- xeromal 5y ago
  Yeah, conquering peoples that don't need conquering are pretty equal offenders in my book. I'm sure some are more brutal than others, but they're all trying to do the same thing. Subjugate people that don't want it. The Romans, The Muslims, The Mongols, The British and many other European countries, and the US all are the bad guys in many humans' sad stories. I'm not sure what the comment you're replying to is trying to accomplish either. I've seen the Mongols described as a necessary evil to halt the Islamic conquest of the world. Khan himself thought he was God's scourge on the world for all our sins.
- deleted 5y ago
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- pfdietz 5y ago
  The destruction of the libraries of Baghdad was a tragedy for the entire world.
  - robinsoh 5y ago
    > The destruction of the libraries of Baghdad was a tragedy for the entire world. Yes. And I'm sure you'll agree the same for the the multiple genocides, organized mass rape and destruction of numerous non-Islamic universities in South Asia and violent annihilation of indigenous peoples (not just their ethnic groups, but also their original cultures and religions) in South East Asia. It seems to be happening even right now with Indonesian Muslims annihilating and colonizing West Papuan tribal populations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgllbBzZxxM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgllbBzZxxM
    - deleted 5y ago
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- azth 5y ago
  I'm saying that the Muslims did the world a favor by saving them from the Mongol destruction. Niall Ferguoson sounds quite biased and exaggerative.
qiskit 5y ago
> The Muslims greatly suffered under the Mongol Empire's trail of destruction Arabs did. The ottoman turks, muslim persians, etc benefited greatly. If the mongol empire was so destructive, we wouldn't have had the ottoman empire - the greatest muslim empire in history. > and the atrocities the latter committed have been well documented. It's absurdly exaggerated. > Yet, it is a great page in our history to have dealt the first major blow to them in the Battle of Ain Jalut[1], saving the world from God knows what horrid things they would have continued had they been left unchallenged. What horrid things did they do? Other than convert to islam and entrench islam in the places they conquered? As opposed to the arabs who wiped out non-islamic religions in areas they conquered. All you have to do is look at iran/persia. The arabs conquered persia and wiped out zoraostrians. The mongols conquered persia and didn't wipe out islam. And if it wasn't for the mongols, the islamic world would have been conquered in the 1200s rather than in the 1800s. After all, it was the arrival of the mongols in the middle east than ended the crusades.
- azth 5y ago
  > Arabs did. The ottoman turks, muslim persians, etc benefited greatly. They're all Muslims. Islam establishes that ethnicity does not matter. Arabs did not wipe out local populations, you'd want to look at the Crusades and Zionists for that.
  - qiskit 5y ago
    > They're all Muslims. Islam establishes that ethnicity does not matter. Yes I know. That's my point. The arabic domination of the muslim world was ended by the mongols. The mongol empire helped the rise of the ottoman and persian empire. In other words, the mongol empire was bad for arab muslims but great for turkic and persian muslims. > Arabs did not wipe out local populations, you'd want to look at the Crusades and Zionists for that. Neither did the mongols. That's my point. But the arabs wiped out local cultures and religions. Which the mongols did not. They actually safeguarded local cultures and religions. It's why so much mongol empire remained so diverse racially, ethnically, culturally, religiously, etc.
    - 5y ago

by azth 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

robinsoh 5y ago

> The Muslims greatly suffered under the Mongol Empire's trail of destruction, and the atrocities the latter committed have been well documented. Hmmm.... I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate here or achieve with your comment. You're trying to say that the Mongol Empire's trail of destruction is "worse" than the Islamic Empire's trail of destruction? > it is a great page in our history to have dealt the first major blow to them in the Battle of Ain Jalut[1], saving the world from God knows what horrid things they would have continued had they been left unchallenged. "our" history? "saving the world from them"? Forgive me, but do you feel entirely comfortable saying such things? Since you've made the statement "God knows what horrid things they would have continued had they been left unchallenged.", I wonder what's your take on the historian Niall Ferguson's remark that the Islamic Conquest of South Asia was the largest genocide in human history. I wouldn't be surprised if others had the opposite opinion to you and would have wished the Mongols had done more to protect the world. Are you able to see both sides of these equations?

xeromal 5y ago
Yeah, conquering peoples that don't need conquering are pretty equal offenders in my book. I'm sure some are more brutal than others, but they're all trying to do the same thing. Subjugate people that don't want it. The Romans, The Muslims, The Mongols, The British and many other European countries, and the US all are the bad guys in many humans' sad stories. I'm not sure what the comment you're replying to is trying to accomplish either. I've seen the Mongols described as a necessary evil to halt the Islamic conquest of the world. Khan himself thought he was God's scourge on the world for all our sins.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
pfdietz 5y ago
The destruction of the libraries of Baghdad was a tragedy for the entire world.
- robinsoh 5y ago
  > The destruction of the libraries of Baghdad was a tragedy for the entire world. Yes. And I'm sure you'll agree the same for the the multiple genocides, organized mass rape and destruction of numerous non-Islamic universities in South Asia and violent annihilation of indigenous peoples (not just their ethnic groups, but also their original cultures and religions) in South East Asia. It seems to be happening even right now with Indonesian Muslims annihilating and colonizing West Papuan tribal populations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgllbBzZxxM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgllbBzZxxM
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
azth 5y ago
I'm saying that the Muslims did the world a favor by saving them from the Mongol destruction. Niall Ferguoson sounds quite biased and exaggerative.

qiskit 5y ago

> The Muslims greatly suffered under the Mongol Empire's trail of destruction Arabs did. The ottoman turks, muslim persians, etc benefited greatly. If the mongol empire was so destructive, we wouldn't have had the ottoman empire - the greatest muslim empire in history. > and the atrocities the latter committed have been well documented. It's absurdly exaggerated. > Yet, it is a great page in our history to have dealt the first major blow to them in the Battle of Ain Jalut[1], saving the world from God knows what horrid things they would have continued had they been left unchallenged. What horrid things did they do? Other than convert to islam and entrench islam in the places they conquered? As opposed to the arabs who wiped out non-islamic religions in areas they conquered. All you have to do is look at iran/persia. The arabs conquered persia and wiped out zoraostrians. The mongols conquered persia and didn't wipe out islam. And if it wasn't for the mongols, the islamic world would have been conquered in the 1200s rather than in the 1800s. After all, it was the arrival of the mongols in the middle east than ended the crusades.

azth 5y ago
> Arabs did. The ottoman turks, muslim persians, etc benefited greatly. They're all Muslims. Islam establishes that ethnicity does not matter. Arabs did not wipe out local populations, you'd want to look at the Crusades and Zionists for that.
- qiskit 5y ago
  > They're all Muslims. Islam establishes that ethnicity does not matter. Yes I know. That's my point. The arabic domination of the muslim world was ended by the mongols. The mongol empire helped the rise of the ottoman and persian empire. In other words, the mongol empire was bad for arab muslims but great for turkic and persian muslims. > Arabs did not wipe out local populations, you'd want to look at the Crusades and Zionists for that. Neither did the mongols. That's my point. But the arabs wiped out local cultures and religions. Which the mongols did not. They actually safeguarded local cultures and religions. It's why so much mongol empire remained so diverse racially, ethnically, culturally, religiously, etc.
  - 5y ago