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That software bug made a lot of Hungarians miss elections today in Netherlands :(

by xiphias2 5y ago

csomar 5y ago
So you are saying it's a plot to change the election's outcome? edit: It was a joke. :/
- xiphias2 5y ago
  I don't think so. Anyways the same dictatorship (Viktor Orban) got full control again of the country.
  - mardifoufs 5y ago
    Were the elections illegitimate ? I'm a complete outsider to hungarian politics so I'm not sure if this is hyperbole... but talking about how a dictatorship has been reelected again doesn't make sense to me. Unless elections in Hungary are just theather, and results are just faked like in Syria for example.
    - Timwi 5y ago
      Outright dictatorships like North Korea are getting rarer. It's more common nowadays for de-facto dictatorships to maintain an appearance of democracy by actually holding elections but either having no viable candidates other than the incumbent (e.g. Russia), or by systematically banning or even murdering all opposition (e.g. Belarus). Hungary isn't quite that far gone yet. It still has elections that technically meet the requirements of EU membership. I don't know any more details though.
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      It's a relatively free election, there's a strong incumbent bias that undoubtedly helps him win but there's no evidence the entire thing is rigged. Dictators can be popular, the best example is Napoleon.
      - usr1106 5y ago
        The government made extra payments to their typical supporters like pensioners and rural areas. Economically strong regions and younger professionals pay the bill and are free to vote against, but they remain a minority.
        adhesive_wombat 5y ago
        Yes, but the question was about Hungary, not the UK. Though since there's no election for a while and they don't apparently get elected based on promises delivered, just promised made, they haven't shied away from breaking the pensioner-bait promises anyway for this year and removing the triple lock (pensions rise at least as fast as the largest of inflation, earnings or 2.5%).
        shapefrog 5y ago
        > they haven't shied away from breaking -- promises anyway for this year Non-election year actions, while unironically promising that they are going to give away money in the upcoming election year.
      - xiphias2 5y ago
        Each opposition party gets 5 minutes per 4 year election cycle by the state controlled media (and a lot of other media was bought from stolen EU money). I dare you to watch 5 minutes of news on the government media channel (the only channels that can be accessed in the free TV tear, that poor people are able to watch) and say that it's not rigged. 4 year ago the joke party used that 5 minutes for being a chicken to show the absurdity of the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcpuwIl-610&t=28s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcpuwIl-610&t=28s If Napoleon, who ruled hundreds of years ago is the best example you know, there must be something in not allowing any person to stay for 16 years in power (especially because he just had 9 years)
        boomboomsubban 5y ago
        All your saying can be described as a "strong incumbent bias that undoubtedly helps him win." International poll watchers agree, the elections themselves are fair but the blurred separation of party and state leads to an undue advantage. 2014, but I don't see evidence of the situation having changed. http://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/hungary/121098?download=true http://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/hungary/121098?download=... Maybe I should have said "fully rigged." Real opposition candidates do get to run, they just have almost no shot of victory. And it's possible that if they did have a shot, the elections would be outright rigged. Napoleon was my example of a popular dictator, I didn't want to use other examples as people will debate whether they're dictators. I never said that's a good thing, Napoleon was horrible despite remaining popular in France.
- synicalx 5y ago
  You must never joke on HN, this is a SERIOUS site where SERIOUS 10x people talk about SERIOUS things like.... uhhh.... playing Doom in Grafana.
orblivion 5y ago
For those outside of Europe, could you explain how this works? Are these Hungarian citizens living abroad who are able to somehow vote from polling places accessible by train within the Netherlands? Is this an EU organized thing?
- xiphias2 5y ago
  Only in Amsterdam inside Netherlands after waiting a long line. At the same time Hungarians in Romania could vote by mail and the government was using Fidesz to collect the votes and threw out votes of the opposition. The soft dictatorship works very well, Hungary will go even more down in the future. I'll probably leave Hungary before Hungary leaves EU/NATO and gets into a war.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    Voting by mail is insecure? This is very troubling.
    - xiphias2 5y ago
      It's not simply voting by mail, it's voting by mail by not even using official the post office in Romania. I know that you're probably refering to US, but I don't make any comment about it, because I don't live there, so I don't know what really happened in US. In Romania some people found partially burned ballots with only opposition votes next to a garbage bin before the elections ended. The proofs of voter fraud couldn't have been clearer. It's supposed to be a scandal, but nothing will happen about it. https://hungarytoday.hu/discarded-burnt-postal-ballots-scandals-postal-voting-hungary-fidesz-opposition-rmdsz/ https://hungarytoday.hu/discarded-burnt-postal-ballots-scand...
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago
        Well that is just an isolated case. There is simply no evidence to support the baseless conspiracy theory that postal voting results in widespread fraud. This has been well established by the experts and journalists.

That software bug made a lot of Hungarians miss elections today in Netherlands :(

csomar 5y ago

So you are saying it's a plot to change the election's outcome? edit: It was a joke. :/

xiphias2 5y ago
I don't think so. Anyways the same dictatorship (Viktor Orban) got full control again of the country.
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  Were the elections illegitimate ? I'm a complete outsider to hungarian politics so I'm not sure if this is hyperbole... but talking about how a dictatorship has been reelected again doesn't make sense to me. Unless elections in Hungary are just theather, and results are just faked like in Syria for example.
  - Timwi 5y ago
    Outright dictatorships like North Korea are getting rarer. It's more common nowadays for de-facto dictatorships to maintain an appearance of democracy by actually holding elections but either having no viable candidates other than the incumbent (e.g. Russia), or by systematically banning or even murdering all opposition (e.g. Belarus). Hungary isn't quite that far gone yet. It still has elections that technically meet the requirements of EU membership. I don't know any more details though.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    It's a relatively free election, there's a strong incumbent bias that undoubtedly helps him win but there's no evidence the entire thing is rigged. Dictators can be popular, the best example is Napoleon.
    - usr1106 5y ago
      The government made extra payments to their typical supporters like pensioners and rural areas. Economically strong regions and younger professionals pay the bill and are free to vote against, but they remain a minority.
      - adhesive_wombat 5y ago
        Yes, but the question was about Hungary, not the UK. Though since there's no election for a while and they don't apparently get elected based on promises delivered, just promised made, they haven't shied away from breaking the pensioner-bait promises anyway for this year and removing the triple lock (pensions rise at least as fast as the largest of inflation, earnings or 2.5%).
        shapefrog 5y ago
        > they haven't shied away from breaking -- promises anyway for this year Non-election year actions, while unironically promising that they are going to give away money in the upcoming election year.
    - xiphias2 5y ago
      Each opposition party gets 5 minutes per 4 year election cycle by the state controlled media (and a lot of other media was bought from stolen EU money). I dare you to watch 5 minutes of news on the government media channel (the only channels that can be accessed in the free TV tear, that poor people are able to watch) and say that it's not rigged. 4 year ago the joke party used that 5 minutes for being a chicken to show the absurdity of the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcpuwIl-610&t=28s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcpuwIl-610&t=28s If Napoleon, who ruled hundreds of years ago is the best example you know, there must be something in not allowing any person to stay for 16 years in power (especially because he just had 9 years)
      - boomboomsubban 5y ago
        All your saying can be described as a "strong incumbent bias that undoubtedly helps him win." International poll watchers agree, the elections themselves are fair but the blurred separation of party and state leads to an undue advantage. 2014, but I don't see evidence of the situation having changed. http://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/hungary/121098?download=true http://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/hungary/121098?download=... Maybe I should have said "fully rigged." Real opposition candidates do get to run, they just have almost no shot of victory. And it's possible that if they did have a shot, the elections would be outright rigged. Napoleon was my example of a popular dictator, I didn't want to use other examples as people will debate whether they're dictators. I never said that's a good thing, Napoleon was horrible despite remaining popular in France.
synicalx 5y ago
You must never joke on HN, this is a SERIOUS site where SERIOUS 10x people talk about SERIOUS things like.... uhhh.... playing Doom in Grafana.

orblivion 5y ago

For those outside of Europe, could you explain how this works? Are these Hungarian citizens living abroad who are able to somehow vote from polling places accessible by train within the Netherlands? Is this an EU organized thing?

xiphias2 5y ago
Only in Amsterdam inside Netherlands after waiting a long line. At the same time Hungarians in Romania could vote by mail and the government was using Fidesz to collect the votes and threw out votes of the opposition. The soft dictatorship works very well, Hungary will go even more down in the future. I'll probably leave Hungary before Hungary leaves EU/NATO and gets into a war.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  Voting by mail is insecure? This is very troubling.
  - xiphias2 5y ago
    It's not simply voting by mail, it's voting by mail by not even using official the post office in Romania. I know that you're probably refering to US, but I don't make any comment about it, because I don't live there, so I don't know what really happened in US. In Romania some people found partially burned ballots with only opposition votes next to a garbage bin before the elections ended. The proofs of voter fraud couldn't have been clearer. It's supposed to be a scandal, but nothing will happen about it. https://hungarytoday.hu/discarded-burnt-postal-ballots-scandals-postal-voting-hungary-fidesz-opposition-rmdsz/ https://hungarytoday.hu/discarded-burnt-postal-ballots-scand...
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      Well that is just an isolated case. There is simply no evidence to support the baseless conspiracy theory that postal voting results in widespread fraud. This has been well established by the experts and journalists.