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Somehow grocery stores managed to stay open. So did tire repair centers, auto shops, home depots, uber drivers, pot shop employees, pharmacy employees... what m

Somehow grocery stores managed to stay open. So did tire repair centers, auto shops, home depots, uber drivers, pot shop employees, pharmacy employees... what makes teachers so damn special? Adults sacrifice for children. Asking children, none of whom are at risk, to sacrifice for more than a year for a bunch of frightened adults... it is so disgustingly immoral I can't even. If teachers were scared, they should have quit and let somebody else teach the kids. Covid isn't and never was some modern black plague. The median age of death was higher than the average life expectancy of a human.

manuelabeledo 5y ago
> what makes teachers so damn special? Ridiculous. None of those jobs can be performed remotely. > Adults sacrifice for children [...] If teachers were scared, they should have quit and let somebody else teach the kids. So you recognise the need for teachers, but not their right to live? Laughable. Also, there is a teacher shortage in the US. It's not like there are people queuing up to become teachers, so your point is moot. > The median age of death was higher than the average life expectancy of a human. Disregarding the fact that comparing medians and averages makes no sense, what does this matter? Lung cancer disproportionally kills more old than young people, does that mean that youngsters should be allowed to work in an asbestos infested environment? Regardless, the average age of teachers in the US is 42 years, and ~20% of them are 55 years or older [1]. COVID-19 deaths are 4% in the 40-49 age range, and 19% in the 50-64 age range [2]. On top of that, 60% of Americans have one or more comorbidities that increase COVID-19 risk [3], and long term COVID-19 is definitely a thing [4]. In comparison, if we were to accept that not going to school made children suicidal, which is quite a leap, still puts suicide rates hundreds of times below COVID-19 mortality rate. So what exactly is your standing here? That we need healthier teachers? More reckless ones? That teachers should be trained to disregard their own safety in order to satisfy your demands? What exactly are the risks in children development that would justify all this, by the way? [1] https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/ntps/tables/ntps1718_fltable02_t1s.asp https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/ntps/tables/ntps1718_fltable02_t... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-... [3] https://www.healthline.com/health-news/60-percent-of-americans-have-underlying-condition-that-increases-covid19-risk https://www.healthline.com/health-news/60-percent-of-america... [4] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  Your own data doesn’t say Covid deaths are 4% for that age bracket. The IFR for that bracket is orders of magnitude better. That research says that 4% of all deaths came out of that age bracket… Your own data says teachers aren’t the largest risk group. Do any of all the pro-lockdown people even look at the data?
  - manuelabeledo 5y ago
    > Your own data says teachers aren’t the largest risk group. Of course they aren't, because the largest risk group is likely retired already. What's your point here, then? Frankly, it seems that you are arguing that playing Russian roulette is fine with up to three bullets, and that we should be only slightly careful when going over that. For the children, that's it.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      What is your point? I said that children making sacrifices for adults is pretty craptastic. Especially given Covid isn’t some Super Ebola or something… it’s a respiratory virus in line with the 1956 pandemic flu. They had Woodstock in the middle of that…
      - manuelabeledo 5y ago
        > I said that children making sacrifices for adults is pretty craptastic. Unless you can quantify such “sacrifices”, this point is also moot. There is a quantifiable risk of death among teachers, a risk objectively deadlier than kids not seeing their friends for a while. > it’s a respiratory virus in line with the 1956 pandemic flu. They had Woodstock in the middle of that… What are you even talking about? COVID-19 killed 10 times more people, so far, in the US than the 1957-1958 flu. Also, Woodstock happened 10 years later.
        spookthesunset 5y ago
        Is your statistic adjusted for population and age group? It doesn’t matter if i cannot quantify the impact of keeping kids out of school. You are the one arguing for dramatic changes to their short childhood. You need to prove that the sacrifice is worth the cost, including all the second and third order effects. I don’t have to prove anything, that’s not how this works. Thus far, I see no evidence that says we ever should have closed schools and other stuff for kids. We absolutely fucked kids in our myopic obsession with one very specific illness. And one must be willfully blind to not see the damage we caused our kids. Not cool.

manuelabeledo 5y ago

> what makes teachers so damn special? Ridiculous. None of those jobs can be performed remotely. > Adults sacrifice for children [...] If teachers were scared, they should have quit and let somebody else teach the kids. So you recognise the need for teachers, but not their right to live? Laughable. Also, there is a teacher shortage in the US. It's not like there are people queuing up to become teachers, so your point is moot. > The median age of death was higher than the average life expectancy of a human. Disregarding the fact that comparing medians and averages makes no sense, what does this matter? Lung cancer disproportionally kills more old than young people, does that mean that youngsters should be allowed to work in an asbestos infested environment? Regardless, the average age of teachers in the US is 42 years, and ~20% of them are 55 years or older [1]. COVID-19 deaths are 4% in the 40-49 age range, and 19% in the 50-64 age range [2]. On top of that, 60% of Americans have one or more comorbidities that increase COVID-19 risk [3], and long term COVID-19 is definitely a thing [4]. In comparison, if we were to accept that not going to school made children suicidal, which is quite a leap, still puts suicide rates hundreds of times below COVID-19 mortality rate. So what exactly is your standing here? That we need healthier teachers? More reckless ones? That teachers should be trained to disregard their own safety in order to satisfy your demands? What exactly are the risks in children development that would justify all this, by the way? [1] https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/ntps/tables/ntps1718_fltable02_t1s.asp https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/ntps/tables/ntps1718_fltable02_t... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-... [3] https://www.healthline.com/health-news/60-percent-of-americans-have-underlying-condition-that-increases-covid19-risk https://www.healthline.com/health-news/60-percent-of-america... [4] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...

spookthesunset 5y ago
Your own data doesn’t say Covid deaths are 4% for that age bracket. The IFR for that bracket is orders of magnitude better. That research says that 4% of all deaths came out of that age bracket… Your own data says teachers aren’t the largest risk group. Do any of all the pro-lockdown people even look at the data?
- manuelabeledo 5y ago
  > Your own data says teachers aren’t the largest risk group. Of course they aren't, because the largest risk group is likely retired already. What's your point here, then? Frankly, it seems that you are arguing that playing Russian roulette is fine with up to three bullets, and that we should be only slightly careful when going over that. For the children, that's it.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    What is your point? I said that children making sacrifices for adults is pretty craptastic. Especially given Covid isn’t some Super Ebola or something… it’s a respiratory virus in line with the 1956 pandemic flu. They had Woodstock in the middle of that…
    - manuelabeledo 5y ago
      > I said that children making sacrifices for adults is pretty craptastic. Unless you can quantify such “sacrifices”, this point is also moot. There is a quantifiable risk of death among teachers, a risk objectively deadlier than kids not seeing their friends for a while. > it’s a respiratory virus in line with the 1956 pandemic flu. They had Woodstock in the middle of that… What are you even talking about? COVID-19 killed 10 times more people, so far, in the US than the 1957-1958 flu. Also, Woodstock happened 10 years later.
      - spookthesunset 5y ago
        Is your statistic adjusted for population and age group? It doesn’t matter if i cannot quantify the impact of keeping kids out of school. You are the one arguing for dramatic changes to their short childhood. You need to prove that the sacrifice is worth the cost, including all the second and third order effects. I don’t have to prove anything, that’s not how this works. Thus far, I see no evidence that says we ever should have closed schools and other stuff for kids. We absolutely fucked kids in our myopic obsession with one very specific illness. And one must be willfully blind to not see the damage we caused our kids. Not cool.