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Having worked in health tech for the past ten years, I can name other companies that are equally massive frauds that just haven't been discovered yet. All you n

by reureu 5y ago

Having worked in health tech for the past ten years, I can name other companies that are equally massive frauds that just haven't been discovered yet. All you need is a good PR team and some big name investors, and it doesn't matter if what you're creating is real or not... you can get away with a lot. Health care and medicine isn't a "fake it till you make it" type of industry, but that's the entire model that's preached in the startup world. So, almost by definition, startups + health care is really ripe for fraud and deception.

metadat 5y ago
If you know of similar frauds, then please name them here.
- adampk 5y ago
  That is a big ask for someone that probably doesn't want all that noise in their life?
- reureu 5y ago
  Two that I'm comfortable sharing are: Cerebral (cerebral.com): first, their whole business model is about being a pill farm for controlled substances. So, out of the gate that's pretty concerning (but, yes, you can make a lot of money by providing easy access to adderall and ativan). Beyond that, they're having a hell of time recruiting providers and so their lead time for appointments is pretty high. They're still taking customers on a subscription basis, but can't provide appointments. I think it's just a matter of time before that whole mess collapses. One Medical (onemedical.com): in early 2021, they were caught letting people skip the line for covid vaccines. The house select committee on coronavirus investigated them and released a pretty damning report back in December, and their SEC filings have indicated that they're under further investigations by some various organizations. Based on this information and other chatter I've heard, I don't think that's the only questionable thing they've done.
  - caseyohara 5y ago
    Very strange that Simone Biles (the olympic gymnast) is Chief Impact Officer at Cerebral, front and center on the homepage.
    - fatjokes 5y ago
      Serious question: what the hell is a chief impact officer? Isn't former prince Harry also one for some startup? Is it basically just an celebrity spokesperson?
      - manigandham 5y ago
        Yes, that's what it is.
      - me_me_mu_mu 5y ago
        When I see stuff like that, I instantly take the company less seriously or ignore them unless the person in charge is someone eccentric like Elon. At least he is capable of running his company in a ruthlessly effective way even with wonky titles and shenanigans.
        bombcar 5y ago
        Chief Impact Officer at SpaceX would be an entirely different role I feel. :)
        lillecarl 5y ago
        When I see someone endorse Elon Musk, I instantly take them less serious and avoid getting into into discussions with them, unless they own a Model X. At least it means they're capable of purchasing low-quality luxury goods....?
      - jen20 5y ago
        I don't know what a Chief Impact Officer is. However, Harry is not a "former" prince - he is still Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex, and sixth in line to the throne.
- sampo 5y ago
  The "we will deep freeze your brain, and resurrect you in the future" company, Nectome.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Futurama style? Or like Tatooine's B'omarr monks?
  - rob74 5y ago
    The promise is more "we will deep freeze your brain, and in the future we will maybe come up with a technology that allows us to resurrect you in whatever form". Which is what companies like Alcor have been promising for decades already. So for people who sign up it's more like betting a sizeable amount of money on a small chance that they will be resurrected someday, which is still better (in their opinion at least) than dying like everyone else does...
antattack 5y ago
Maybe not 'fake it till you make it' but certainly 'it's not illegal until you get caught'.
lvs 5y ago
iancmceachern 5y ago
I've found the same thing to be true. The successful medtech startups are consistently from experienced folks that have spent years in that industry who identify an unmet need and go after it. Every single medtech startup that has been led by a startup bro right out of school with personal connections to money has been successful in raising money, building hype and a PR machine, but not in creating meaningful value to the patient and caregiver, and not making it to the clinic.
- hef19898 5y ago
  There seem to be industries that cannot be disrupted by dumping hundreds of millions of VC dollars on PR and marketing and undercutting the competition until you're the last man standing. Health care and pharma for one, I'd say aerospace as well (exceptions like SpaceX notwithstanding, and they have a top notch team and Shotwell who seem to be perfectly able to manage both an aerospace company and its tech bro founder).
  - hnfong 5y ago
    The formula of "dumping hundreds of millions of VC dollars on PR and marketing and undercutting the competition until you're the last man standing" work on industries that had no "difficult problems" to solve in the first place, and only need marketing and scale. It's not a coincidence that the companies that succeeded with the formula were internet ads, and monopolies that provided day to day services (replacing mundane stuff like taxis, hotels, social interaction, etc...)
1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
"Having worked in health tech for the past ten years, I can name other companies that are equally massive frauds that just haven't been discovered yet." You say you can name other companies that have not yet been "discovered" yet, and yet you name zero companies. Are you just teasing. Please name them and let's have a look.
- bdcravens 5y ago
  Presumably they don't want to be sued into oblivion.
  - reureu 5y ago
    I just need to avoid the ones that I have NDAs with from lawsuit settlements over their illegal activities ;) The companies I've listed are welcome to sue me. I'm in California, and I'm talking about matters of public interest in a public forum. California has one of the stronger SLAPPBack statutes, so sue away!
- reureu 5y ago
  I did name companies-- Cerebral and One Medical-- I just named them in a later comment. A few bonuses: BetterHelp and Noom, both rely on dubious studies of their efficacy to promote their products. 100Plus (prior to acquisition, I know less about it with its current leadership) was playing a game that was really close to insurance fraud. They're not Theranos-level situations... that was just insane in how brazen its fraud was. But more the uBiome-type, where it's illegal or deceptive and at risk of being shut down as a result. And, not to mention, their behavior might be actually harming patients.
  - 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
    Thank you. I apologise I was skimming and missed the later comment.

by reureu 5y ago

metadat 5y ago

If you know of similar frauds, then please name them here.

adampk 5y ago
That is a big ask for someone that probably doesn't want all that noise in their life?
reureu 5y ago
Two that I'm comfortable sharing are: Cerebral (cerebral.com): first, their whole business model is about being a pill farm for controlled substances. So, out of the gate that's pretty concerning (but, yes, you can make a lot of money by providing easy access to adderall and ativan). Beyond that, they're having a hell of time recruiting providers and so their lead time for appointments is pretty high. They're still taking customers on a subscription basis, but can't provide appointments. I think it's just a matter of time before that whole mess collapses. One Medical (onemedical.com): in early 2021, they were caught letting people skip the line for covid vaccines. The house select committee on coronavirus investigated them and released a pretty damning report back in December, and their SEC filings have indicated that they're under further investigations by some various organizations. Based on this information and other chatter I've heard, I don't think that's the only questionable thing they've done.
- caseyohara 5y ago
  Very strange that Simone Biles (the olympic gymnast) is Chief Impact Officer at Cerebral, front and center on the homepage.
  - fatjokes 5y ago
    Serious question: what the hell is a chief impact officer? Isn't former prince Harry also one for some startup? Is it basically just an celebrity spokesperson?
    - manigandham 5y ago
      Yes, that's what it is.
    - me_me_mu_mu 5y ago
      When I see stuff like that, I instantly take the company less seriously or ignore them unless the person in charge is someone eccentric like Elon. At least he is capable of running his company in a ruthlessly effective way even with wonky titles and shenanigans.
      - bombcar 5y ago
        Chief Impact Officer at SpaceX would be an entirely different role I feel. :)
      - lillecarl 5y ago
        When I see someone endorse Elon Musk, I instantly take them less serious and avoid getting into into discussions with them, unless they own a Model X. At least it means they're capable of purchasing low-quality luxury goods....?
    - jen20 5y ago
      I don't know what a Chief Impact Officer is. However, Harry is not a "former" prince - he is still Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex, and sixth in line to the throne.
sampo 5y ago
The "we will deep freeze your brain, and resurrect you in the future" company, Nectome.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Futurama style? Or like Tatooine's B'omarr monks?
- rob74 5y ago
  The promise is more "we will deep freeze your brain, and in the future we will maybe come up with a technology that allows us to resurrect you in whatever form". Which is what companies like Alcor have been promising for decades already. So for people who sign up it's more like betting a sizeable amount of money on a small chance that they will be resurrected someday, which is still better (in their opinion at least) than dying like everyone else does...

antattack 5y ago

Maybe not 'fake it till you make it' but certainly 'it's not illegal until you get caught'.

lvs 5y ago

iancmceachern 5y ago

I've found the same thing to be true. The successful medtech startups are consistently from experienced folks that have spent years in that industry who identify an unmet need and go after it. Every single medtech startup that has been led by a startup bro right out of school with personal connections to money has been successful in raising money, building hype and a PR machine, but not in creating meaningful value to the patient and caregiver, and not making it to the clinic.

hef19898 5y ago
There seem to be industries that cannot be disrupted by dumping hundreds of millions of VC dollars on PR and marketing and undercutting the competition until you're the last man standing. Health care and pharma for one, I'd say aerospace as well (exceptions like SpaceX notwithstanding, and they have a top notch team and Shotwell who seem to be perfectly able to manage both an aerospace company and its tech bro founder).
- hnfong 5y ago
  The formula of "dumping hundreds of millions of VC dollars on PR and marketing and undercutting the competition until you're the last man standing" work on industries that had no "difficult problems" to solve in the first place, and only need marketing and scale. It's not a coincidence that the companies that succeeded with the formula were internet ads, and monopolies that provided day to day services (replacing mundane stuff like taxis, hotels, social interaction, etc...)

1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago

"Having worked in health tech for the past ten years, I can name other companies that are equally massive frauds that just haven't been discovered yet." You say you can name other companies that have not yet been "discovered" yet, and yet you name zero companies. Are you just teasing. Please name them and let's have a look.

bdcravens 5y ago
Presumably they don't want to be sued into oblivion.
- reureu 5y ago
  I just need to avoid the ones that I have NDAs with from lawsuit settlements over their illegal activities ;) The companies I've listed are welcome to sue me. I'm in California, and I'm talking about matters of public interest in a public forum. California has one of the stronger SLAPPBack statutes, so sue away!
reureu 5y ago
I did name companies-- Cerebral and One Medical-- I just named them in a later comment. A few bonuses: BetterHelp and Noom, both rely on dubious studies of their efficacy to promote their products. 100Plus (prior to acquisition, I know less about it with its current leadership) was playing a game that was really close to insurance fraud. They're not Theranos-level situations... that was just insane in how brazen its fraud was. But more the uBiome-type, where it's illegal or deceptive and at risk of being shut down as a result. And, not to mention, their behavior might be actually harming patients.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
  Thank you. I apologise I was skimming and missed the later comment.