5 ms·

It's perfectly natural to not want to have an account even if it's trivial to make, and even if you already have one, it's a basic privacy desire to refuse to l

It's perfectly natural to not want to have an account even if it's trivial to make, and even if you already have one, it's a basic privacy desire to refuse to link your computer to this account. It's also a reasonable desire to have your computer local authentication be completely separate any from Microsoft service, ensuring that the events are private and don't even get communicated to Microsoft, much less being able to circumvent local authentication by anyone who is in control of that cloud account.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> it's a basic privacy desire to refuse to link your computer to this account Seems a bit tin-foil in these days. Which is a fine preference for an individual if they’re into that scene, but you can understand why Microsoft doesn’t care about such a tiny proportion of society.
- AniseAbyss 5y ago
- quantum_solanum 5y ago
  Almost like Microsoft deliberately helped marginalize the position because it's profitable!
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    How many niche preferences can Microsoft be expected to accommodate? What about people who refuse to use capital letters? Can you use Windows without using capital letters? At some point it's reasonable to design for most people.
    - salawat 5y ago
      Congratulations. You strawmanned. So where does the heap fallacy start kicking in? Because every feature I see delivered seems more tuned for keeping a PM working than actually making the user's life any easier. They gave up every pretense of gaining or humoring "consent" when the implemented Cortana's little "you need to agree to this or, ya know, no windows" bs.
- Silhouette 5y ago
  Seems a bit tin-foil in these days. These days? Surely these days it is beyond any reasonable doubt that not only were a lot of the tin-foil fashionistas right all along but also the suggested dangers of modern always-connected technology do now actually harm real people in real ways quite often. Just look at the subject of this very discussion. The most disturbing thing is that it's still only a relatively small proportion of society who will actively try to avoid the trap. From my own experience it's not even that the others don't care -- plenty of them are well aware of what is being done to them and they don't like it -- but they think the alternatives are just as bad and they're (reasonably enough) not willing to become digital hermits who are disconnected from normal life just to avoid the likes of Microsoft, Google and Apple.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > The most disturbing thing is that it's still only a relatively small proportion of society who will actively try to avoid the trap. If people had genuine security concerns why would they be using stock Windows connected directly to the Internet in the first place?
    - AlchemistCamp 5y ago
      Does anyone not have genuine security concerns given how expansive and personal computing has become? We’re not talking about a single app or website. MS is a trillion dollar corporation that controls both the OS and in many cases the hardware layer. The “stock” version has unjustifiable defaults and I quit using Windows myself a few years ago due to exactly the issues people in this thread are complaining about.
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        > We’re not talking about a single app or website. MS is a trillion dollar corporation that controls both the OS and in many cases the hardware layer. Right... so why are people so stubborn on insignificant details like signing up for an account? Microsoft already controls all the software on your system if you're running Windows.
- RHSeeger 5y ago
  > Seems a bit tin-foil in these days. I find it amazing that you can say such a thing with a serious face. Time after time, we learn that the question isn't "are you paranoid", it's "are you paranoid enough". State actors trying to get your data, hackers trying to get and sell your data, hackers trying to lock down your computer and blackmail you; the list goes on and on. The less "connections" you have to third party services, the safer you are.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    No you've got the wrong end of the stick. The point is that refusing to sign up for a Microsoft account is not going to protect you against this supervision if someone wants to do it.
    - fartcannon 5y ago
      Yeah, the only reasonable defence is not to use a closed OS like Microsoft or OSX.
    - 0des 5y ago
      We can generate power to feed the world off the anger and resentment you're building right now. Partner up with me and we can submit this to YC. I'll give you 50%.
    - RHSeeger 5y ago
      Locking your car door is not going to prevent someone from stealing things in it if they choose do. However, it will make it more difficult for them. Every vector by which we can reduce our vulnerability makes us safer. The goal is to be "safer", not "safe".

chrisseaton 5y ago

> it's a basic privacy desire to refuse to link your computer to this account Seems a bit tin-foil in these days. Which is a fine preference for an individual if they’re into that scene, but you can understand why Microsoft doesn’t care about such a tiny proportion of society.

AniseAbyss 5y ago
quantum_solanum 5y ago
Almost like Microsoft deliberately helped marginalize the position because it's profitable!
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  How many niche preferences can Microsoft be expected to accommodate? What about people who refuse to use capital letters? Can you use Windows without using capital letters? At some point it's reasonable to design for most people.
  - salawat 5y ago
    Congratulations. You strawmanned. So where does the heap fallacy start kicking in? Because every feature I see delivered seems more tuned for keeping a PM working than actually making the user's life any easier. They gave up every pretense of gaining or humoring "consent" when the implemented Cortana's little "you need to agree to this or, ya know, no windows" bs.
Silhouette 5y ago
Seems a bit tin-foil in these days. These days? Surely these days it is beyond any reasonable doubt that not only were a lot of the tin-foil fashionistas right all along but also the suggested dangers of modern always-connected technology do now actually harm real people in real ways quite often. Just look at the subject of this very discussion. The most disturbing thing is that it's still only a relatively small proportion of society who will actively try to avoid the trap. From my own experience it's not even that the others don't care -- plenty of them are well aware of what is being done to them and they don't like it -- but they think the alternatives are just as bad and they're (reasonably enough) not willing to become digital hermits who are disconnected from normal life just to avoid the likes of Microsoft, Google and Apple.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > The most disturbing thing is that it's still only a relatively small proportion of society who will actively try to avoid the trap. If people had genuine security concerns why would they be using stock Windows connected directly to the Internet in the first place?
  - AlchemistCamp 5y ago
    Does anyone not have genuine security concerns given how expansive and personal computing has become? We’re not talking about a single app or website. MS is a trillion dollar corporation that controls both the OS and in many cases the hardware layer. The “stock” version has unjustifiable defaults and I quit using Windows myself a few years ago due to exactly the issues people in this thread are complaining about.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      > We’re not talking about a single app or website. MS is a trillion dollar corporation that controls both the OS and in many cases the hardware layer. Right... so why are people so stubborn on insignificant details like signing up for an account? Microsoft already controls all the software on your system if you're running Windows.
RHSeeger 5y ago
> Seems a bit tin-foil in these days. I find it amazing that you can say such a thing with a serious face. Time after time, we learn that the question isn't "are you paranoid", it's "are you paranoid enough". State actors trying to get your data, hackers trying to get and sell your data, hackers trying to lock down your computer and blackmail you; the list goes on and on. The less "connections" you have to third party services, the safer you are.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  No you've got the wrong end of the stick. The point is that refusing to sign up for a Microsoft account is not going to protect you against this supervision if someone wants to do it.
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    Yeah, the only reasonable defence is not to use a closed OS like Microsoft or OSX.
  - 0des 5y ago
    We can generate power to feed the world off the anger and resentment you're building right now. Partner up with me and we can submit this to YC. I'll give you 50%.
  - RHSeeger 5y ago
    Locking your car door is not going to prevent someone from stealing things in it if they choose do. However, it will make it more difficult for them. Every vector by which we can reduce our vulnerability makes us safer. The goal is to be "safer", not "safe".