6 ms·

So the causal link, at least in US, seems to be education->earnings, not gender->earning (which is a correlation).

by option 5y ago

zmgsabst 5y ago
This was always the case. The purported wage gap was always a manifestation of other facts like aggregate job choice, as shown in the death gap — that men die 10x as often in the workplace, according to BLS statistics. https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfoi2006_13.pdf https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfoi2006_13.pdf
mistrial9 5y ago
the casual link also includes behavior like following directions over time, not challenging authority structures and participating in team oriented work being monetarily rewarded, while other social behavior like breaking and establishing territory or unique solutions, are suppressed via market signals. Corporations collectively with fewer employees, are the most profitable in the West as they have been in seventy years, so those that can take what they are handed, play by the rules, and not make waves are rewarded (at their level). Never mind the big picture, not for the likes of you.
amyjess 5y ago
The wage gap is largely a function of how women are expected to be the primary caregivers of children. Here's a detailed article that goes into these things: https://www.vox.com/2017/9/8/16268362/gender-wage-gap-explained https://www.vox.com/2017/9/8/16268362/gender-wage-gap-explai... It makes sense that young women would earn more, but the gender-wage gap appears once you get into middle age as by that point childrearing expectations have destroyed women's careers.
- kaczordon 5y ago
  It’s not about expectations. Many women also want to have children(and raise them) and a side effect of that is being out of the workforce for some time. Most people hate their jobs[1] and not everyone wants to work a 9-5. Raising a child can actually be more fulfilling than working for a tax filing company for example. [1] https://www.staffsquared.com/blog/why-85-of-people-hate-their-jobs/ https://www.staffsquared.com/blog/why-85-of-people-hate-thei...
  - datavirtue 5y ago
    Yeah, I practically pushed my wife into the work force because I wanted her to have her own money/freedom etc. She worked for a few years, did really well to the point of having several paths to promotion in the company, and then "noped out." She just wanted to be mom...full time.
  - mpweiher 5y ago
    See also: My Wife Won't Get A Job While I Work Myself To Death: Why This Is Unfair https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/antonia-865/my-wife-wont-get-a-job-wh_b_11845794.html https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/antonia-865/my-wife-wont-ge...
- sokoloff 5y ago
  One thing I’ve found puzzling is the framing of societal expectations on caregiving (as that Vox article and other sources often frame it). No one from society nor either of our companies sat down with my spouse and I when we decided how to accommodate infancy and early childhood parenting. We had to decide all by ourselves how our family would handle it.
  - Izkata 5y ago
    It means something along the lines of "the depiction of stay-at-home mother on TV shows/assumptions made by friends and family/etc make people think that's how they should do it and they just follow along".
    - mpweiher 5y ago
      It's good to have it written down explicitly like that, because then you notice just how inane the idea is. This could possibly influence you if you have no idea and no desires yourself. Very few have no ideas and no desires about having and raising/taking care of kids. Particularly once the kids are there.
      - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
        When you see a single way of doing things through your entire life, from infancy on, very few people will choose to do something different.
        mpweiher 5y ago
        Typical "wet roads cause rain" fallacy: you see this way of doing things because people choose to do it this way.
- scarmig 5y ago
  > The wage gap is largely a function of how women are expected to be the primary caregivers of children. The wage gap is largely a function of how men are expected to work more at worse jobs to provide for women and children. They're two sides of the same coin, of course. But the relentless focus on how gender roles victimize women serves to distract from the fact that gender roles are a two way street that women are co-equal enforcers of.
  - tomp 5y ago
    > are expected Not just expected but also want to. Money for men is like makeup for women - it makes the person (appear) more attractive.
    - scarmig 5y ago
      > Not just expected but also want to. Better stated, they choose to, in response to social expectations. People would make different choices given different incentives. It's reasonable to work to eliminate social expectations that are conditioned on the gender of the individual.
      - tomp 5y ago
        I think it's just biology/genetics. Men want young sexy women. Women want strong successful men.

So the causal link, at least in US, seems to be education->earnings, not gender->earning (which is a correlation).

by option 5y ago

So the causal link, at least in US, seems to be education->earnings, not gender->earning (which is a correlation).

This was always the case. The purported wage gap was always a manifestation of other facts like aggregate job choice, as shown in the death gap — that men die 10x as often in the workplace, according to BLS statistics. https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfoi2006_13.pdf https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfoi2006_13.pdf

mistrial9 5y ago

the casual link also includes behavior like following directions over time, not challenging authority structures and participating in team oriented work being monetarily rewarded, while other social behavior like breaking and establishing territory or unique solutions, are suppressed via market signals. Corporations collectively with fewer employees, are the most profitable in the West as they have been in seventy years, so those that can take what they are handed, play by the rules, and not make waves are rewarded (at their level). Never mind the big picture, not for the likes of you.

amyjess 5y ago

The wage gap is largely a function of how women are expected to be the primary caregivers of children. Here's a detailed article that goes into these things: https://www.vox.com/2017/9/8/16268362/gender-wage-gap-explained https://www.vox.com/2017/9/8/16268362/gender-wage-gap-explai... It makes sense that young women would earn more, but the gender-wage gap appears once you get into middle age as by that point childrearing expectations have destroyed women's careers.

kaczordon 5y ago
It’s not about expectations. Many women also want to have children(and raise them) and a side effect of that is being out of the workforce for some time. Most people hate their jobs[1] and not everyone wants to work a 9-5. Raising a child can actually be more fulfilling than working for a tax filing company for example. [1] https://www.staffsquared.com/blog/why-85-of-people-hate-their-jobs/ https://www.staffsquared.com/blog/why-85-of-people-hate-thei...
- datavirtue 5y ago
  Yeah, I practically pushed my wife into the work force because I wanted her to have her own money/freedom etc. She worked for a few years, did really well to the point of having several paths to promotion in the company, and then "noped out." She just wanted to be mom...full time.
- mpweiher 5y ago
  See also: My Wife Won't Get A Job While I Work Myself To Death: Why This Is Unfair https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/antonia-865/my-wife-wont-get-a-job-wh_b_11845794.html https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/antonia-865/my-wife-wont-ge...
sokoloff 5y ago
One thing I’ve found puzzling is the framing of societal expectations on caregiving (as that Vox article and other sources often frame it). No one from society nor either of our companies sat down with my spouse and I when we decided how to accommodate infancy and early childhood parenting. We had to decide all by ourselves how our family would handle it.
- Izkata 5y ago
  It means something along the lines of "the depiction of stay-at-home mother on TV shows/assumptions made by friends and family/etc make people think that's how they should do it and they just follow along".
  - mpweiher 5y ago
    It's good to have it written down explicitly like that, because then you notice just how inane the idea is. This could possibly influence you if you have no idea and no desires yourself. Very few have no ideas and no desires about having and raising/taking care of kids. Particularly once the kids are there.
    - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
      When you see a single way of doing things through your entire life, from infancy on, very few people will choose to do something different.
      - mpweiher 5y ago
        Typical "wet roads cause rain" fallacy: you see this way of doing things because people choose to do it this way.
scarmig 5y ago
> The wage gap is largely a function of how women are expected to be the primary caregivers of children. The wage gap is largely a function of how men are expected to work more at worse jobs to provide for women and children. They're two sides of the same coin, of course. But the relentless focus on how gender roles victimize women serves to distract from the fact that gender roles are a two way street that women are co-equal enforcers of.
- tomp 5y ago
  > are expected Not just expected but also want to. Money for men is like makeup for women - it makes the person (appear) more attractive.
  - scarmig 5y ago
    > Not just expected but also want to. Better stated, they choose to, in response to social expectations. People would make different choices given different incentives. It's reasonable to work to eliminate social expectations that are conditioned on the gender of the individual.
    - tomp 5y ago
      I think it's just biology/genetics. Men want young sexy women. Women want strong successful men.