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Fast fashion isn’t the only type of clothing that exists today. I think it’s shortsighted to deride fast fashion without understanding why it’s so popular. Eve

by axg11 5y ago

Fast fashion isn’t the only type of clothing that exists today. I think it’s shortsighted to deride fast fashion without understanding why it’s so popular. Every consumer in the EU, today, has the choice to pay for higher quality and more sustainable clothing. Fashion is unsustainable because the average consumer doesn’t care about the sustainability. They want cheap clothes. That’s it. We can choose to shift the negative externalities back to the consumer or manufacturer, but let’s not forget that people already have the choice to vote with their wallets and they’re resoundingly voting for fast fashion.

lobocinza 5y ago
Only if it was that easy. The consumer lacks information. He can't make a rational choice when he is bombarded by disinformation (marketing claims).
- axg11 5y ago
  Right. Let’s assume everyone is ignorant and make decisions for them. The plebes don’t know better. Big brother will help you lead a better life. The average person is very aware that fast fashion is unsustainable. They just don’t care enough to pay more. They are making a rational choice.
  - untitaker_ 5y ago
    I don't think anybody disputes that the choices made by consumers are rational. The question is, how many of them are actually satisfied with the options the market makes them choose from?
  - lobocinza 5y ago
    How so? Clothes are cheap to manufacture and expensive due to marketing (publicity and distribution). I as a consumer I'm powerless because product from brand X is not necessarily more sustainable or durable that similar product from fast-fashion just because it costs 5 times more.
untitaker_ 5y ago
>Fashion is unsustainable because the average consumer doesn’t care about the sustainability. Voting with your wallet is a myth propagated by free-market ideologues. Same as with swappable batteries in phones or right to repair: I don't know of a single consumer who's happy with the status quo, yet the option to buy a phone with a swappable battery is significantly less attractive and available today than it was 5 years ago.
- jdasdf 5y ago
  How is it a myth? I heard this type of statement often, but the fact is no convincing evidence is ever provided. The fact is there are in fact options available for phones with swappable batteries, it's just that people don't buy them because they come with tradeoffs they don't want. Of course people say they are unhappy with the status quo, but the fact is, bullshit talks and money walks. If they truly valued swappable batteries that much, they'd make the tradeoffs necessary to have that swappable battery. The fact that they don't make those tradeoffs means that no matter what comes out their mouth, they don't want to pay the price of that feature.
  - untitaker_ 5y ago
    You and OP are taking a simple fact (people buy fewer phones with replaceable batteries) and try to guess at people's core values through that. I don't think that makes any sense. But I think this kind of argument leads nowhere. Let's stick to examples. Technically I can only speak for myself and what I value, so: I don't see a choice for myself. I have to choose between a phone that won't last due to its irreplaceable battery, and a phone that is unpopular enough to make me doubt whether it will receive updates after a few years. I have chosen a phone without a replaceable battery. Five+ years ago I would've chosen a phone with one. My values didn't change here at all, the market did. It changed the tradeoffs I have to make to find a phone that suits my needs (overall durability/longevity), and I'm less happy with the options I am provided now than back then. It seems your stance is not to believe me how unhappy I am, as I could have simply spent more money on my phone. If you know where I can find a popular phone with swappable battery, good update policy and significantly large aftermarket (for repairs) let me know.
lousken 5y ago
how do i know which piece of clothing will last me a year and which 10 years? price doesn't really say anything and what are other indicators i can follow?
deleted 5y ago
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by axg11 5y ago

lobocinza 5y ago

Only if it was that easy. The consumer lacks information. He can't make a rational choice when he is bombarded by disinformation (marketing claims).

axg11 5y ago
Right. Let’s assume everyone is ignorant and make decisions for them. The plebes don’t know better. Big brother will help you lead a better life. The average person is very aware that fast fashion is unsustainable. They just don’t care enough to pay more. They are making a rational choice.
- untitaker_ 5y ago
  I don't think anybody disputes that the choices made by consumers are rational. The question is, how many of them are actually satisfied with the options the market makes them choose from?
- lobocinza 5y ago
  How so? Clothes are cheap to manufacture and expensive due to marketing (publicity and distribution). I as a consumer I'm powerless because product from brand X is not necessarily more sustainable or durable that similar product from fast-fashion just because it costs 5 times more.

untitaker_ 5y ago

>Fashion is unsustainable because the average consumer doesn’t care about the sustainability. Voting with your wallet is a myth propagated by free-market ideologues. Same as with swappable batteries in phones or right to repair: I don't know of a single consumer who's happy with the status quo, yet the option to buy a phone with a swappable battery is significantly less attractive and available today than it was 5 years ago.

jdasdf 5y ago
How is it a myth? I heard this type of statement often, but the fact is no convincing evidence is ever provided. The fact is there are in fact options available for phones with swappable batteries, it's just that people don't buy them because they come with tradeoffs they don't want. Of course people say they are unhappy with the status quo, but the fact is, bullshit talks and money walks. If they truly valued swappable batteries that much, they'd make the tradeoffs necessary to have that swappable battery. The fact that they don't make those tradeoffs means that no matter what comes out their mouth, they don't want to pay the price of that feature.
- untitaker_ 5y ago
  You and OP are taking a simple fact (people buy fewer phones with replaceable batteries) and try to guess at people's core values through that. I don't think that makes any sense. But I think this kind of argument leads nowhere. Let's stick to examples. Technically I can only speak for myself and what I value, so: I don't see a choice for myself. I have to choose between a phone that won't last due to its irreplaceable battery, and a phone that is unpopular enough to make me doubt whether it will receive updates after a few years. I have chosen a phone without a replaceable battery. Five+ years ago I would've chosen a phone with one. My values didn't change here at all, the market did. It changed the tradeoffs I have to make to find a phone that suits my needs (overall durability/longevity), and I'm less happy with the options I am provided now than back then. It seems your stance is not to believe me how unhappy I am, as I could have simply spent more money on my phone. If you know where I can find a popular phone with swappable battery, good update policy and significantly large aftermarket (for repairs) let me know.

lousken 5y ago

how do i know which piece of clothing will last me a year and which 10 years? price doesn't really say anything and what are other indicators i can follow?

deleted 5y ago

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