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It IS natural (unfortunately; not all truths are palatable). And not only that, it's systematic (at least in the States). For example, I am currently "fighting"

It IS natural (unfortunately; not all truths are palatable). And not only that, it's systematic (at least in the States). For example, I am currently "fighting" to get something covered by my health insurance. In the past I have "fought" in court to defend myself from traffic tickets, etc. It's inescapable that you will have to fight for yourself in this life in some form, IMHO. Maybe not physically, necessarily (...home intrusion? attempted robbery? unjust police use of force? Trump getting himself installed as dictator?) but force, willpower, "oomph", it's all connected. Your tone of voice on a phone call or in person? That's an expression of force as well. Fuller comment I wrote on this topic here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30896777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30896777 The other night I was speaking to someone I just met and realized I was (without even thinking about it) dominating the conversation, so I consciously pulled back out of respect... Perhaps that is the key to managing force, simply respecting others

bittercynic 5y ago
While knowing how to speak forcefully is certainly a valuable skill to have, almost every situation I face in life is better approached with friendly confidence. I've met a few people who, when a cashier or waiter makes a mistake, think they need to take control, and demand a resolution, and I think they are just being needlessly unpleasant, and get worse outcomes on average because they're being disrespectful.
- pmarreck 5y ago
  Agree with that. I think I'm thinking of confident (not disrespectful) force. Just being assertive about what you think you deserve, that sort of thing. And some people are too excessive at it, possibly because others are insufficiently capable of it. I look at Putin (also clearly a bully) and I think, was there a "posture" that Ukraine could have taken prior to this which would have discouraged him before he committed to what he is doing now? "Promising not to join NATO"? I guess the analogy would be a bully beating up a neighbor's kid to prevent him from joining a rival gang? I don't know. You acquiesce to the bully and usually the bully's demands just go up. Could Putin's advisors have gotten past their fear and been more honest with him? Well, that's the problem with ruling with fear (or perhaps I should say "using fear excessively" with the insinuation that plainly confident (but yet respectful) people do strike a bit of fear in others), you never get the whole truth.
  - bittercynic 5y ago
    The case of Putin is so far outside anything I've experienced that I don't feel like it would have much meaning for me to agree or disagree with you. As for confidence striking a bit of fear in others, I've seen that most often with people who find themselves in a position where they are supposed to be a leader, but don't know how to lead. If someone is attempting to use bullying to control their reports, having confident reports can shine a light on the problem and be scary for the incompetent leader. edit to add: I think confidence is only scary to someone who is attempting to abuse/control.

bittercynic 5y ago

While knowing how to speak forcefully is certainly a valuable skill to have, almost every situation I face in life is better approached with friendly confidence. I've met a few people who, when a cashier or waiter makes a mistake, think they need to take control, and demand a resolution, and I think they are just being needlessly unpleasant, and get worse outcomes on average because they're being disrespectful.

pmarreck 5y ago
Agree with that. I think I'm thinking of confident (not disrespectful) force. Just being assertive about what you think you deserve, that sort of thing. And some people are too excessive at it, possibly because others are insufficiently capable of it. I look at Putin (also clearly a bully) and I think, was there a "posture" that Ukraine could have taken prior to this which would have discouraged him before he committed to what he is doing now? "Promising not to join NATO"? I guess the analogy would be a bully beating up a neighbor's kid to prevent him from joining a rival gang? I don't know. You acquiesce to the bully and usually the bully's demands just go up. Could Putin's advisors have gotten past their fear and been more honest with him? Well, that's the problem with ruling with fear (or perhaps I should say "using fear excessively" with the insinuation that plainly confident (but yet respectful) people do strike a bit of fear in others), you never get the whole truth.
- bittercynic 5y ago
  The case of Putin is so far outside anything I've experienced that I don't feel like it would have much meaning for me to agree or disagree with you. As for confidence striking a bit of fear in others, I've seen that most often with people who find themselves in a position where they are supposed to be a leader, but don't know how to lead. If someone is attempting to use bullying to control their reports, having confident reports can shine a light on the problem and be scary for the incompetent leader. edit to add: I think confidence is only scary to someone who is attempting to abuse/control.