5 ms·

Apple pulls this crap too. Use a different browser on Mac and get a "helpful" notification telling you to try the new Safari. Only place you're safe these days

Apple pulls this crap too. Use a different browser on Mac and get a "helpful" notification telling you to try the new Safari. Only place you're safe these days is a fully FOSS OS like Linux and FreeBSD.

baal80spam 5y ago
I don't use Apple products but I don't think this is outrageous or something. Why shouldn't a company that sold me a refrigerator be able to point out that it produces ovens as well? Of course I despise what Microsoft does, it's absolutely over the top.
- nicce 5y ago
  ”Helpful” notification is much less than Microsoft is doing indeed. After all, Mac is commercial OS and Safari is their product so at least a little bit is allowed. But Microsoft is closer and closer banning anything they don’t want.
- goosedragons 5y ago
  Because its annoying and ridiculous? They also do it WHEN you open another web browser. Imagine if your Acme fridge had a camera that noticed every time you opened your non-Acme oven and bleated out "Try the new Acme Oven! You'll love its efficiency and design!". Is that okay?
  - playpause 5y ago
    Maybe they do that once? They definitely don’t do it every time you open Chrome. That would be ridiculous.
    - goosedragons 5y ago
      You're right thats its not actually every time but neither is this Edge install thing. If you click "Later" I think it won't do it for 3 days according to this blog post [0] and I think that's still accurate. If you hit Try Now I think you get a little more time to whenever Apple updates Safari/macOS. [0] https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/how-to-osx-try-safari-promotion.html https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/how-to-osx-try-safari-promotion....
      - nicoburns 5y ago
        Once a year when Apple does an OS release isn’t too unreasonable. Apple’s iOS policy is completely unreasonable, but IMO Mac has stayed quite ok. The only thing I really don’t like is the rigmarole you have to click through when opening an app from the internet for the first time, but that can be turned off (and it will stay off)
  - bene_legionary 5y ago
    Compared to Windows, the notifications for trying Safari are nothing, and switching browsers aren't so much of a hassle. Microsoft actively tries to push you to Edge in the settings and a to get a Microsoft Account at start up. A couple of times I've been stopped at start up because of the "You need to finish updating" screen with those prompts, sometimes afterwards I see that my taskbar now has the Mail and Edge app pinned automatically. In comparison my Macbook throws up an ignorable notification in the corner if I open Firefox. For your analogy, your Microsoft Fridge is turning off the power supply for your house unless you go and turn it back on by yourself or buy the Microsoft Oven.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  If people accept it, then it will get normalized, then the next level of abuse will come and you'll be happy because the water is only going up a degree or two. Frogs are best boiled slowly. They'll never notice, the suckers.
  - the-dude 5y ago
    Do you have any proof for the boiled frog myth? Would love to read.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      I don't think we need to rehash that bit over and over again, it's a well known that the story is apocryphal but it serves as a useful metaphor, which I think by calling it a myth you are well aware of. Or were you genuinely interested in boiling living frogs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
  - playpause 5y ago
    I think this logic should be reserved for the cases where it really matters, like the erosion of freedom of speech. Potentially permanent changes. This is just slimy sales tactics. The level of ‘acceptable to most people’ swings back and forth. It’s not a slippery slope.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      It really matters. That it doesn't matter to you is something I'm fine with, but user freedom to use their computers as intended is not something that is trivial to me.
      - playpause 5y ago
        It does matter to me, I hate it when slimy sales tactics are the norm. I’m saying the boiling frog idea does not really apply here. It is essentially a spam issue.
- black_puppydog 5y ago
  > Why shouldn't a company that sold me a refrigerator be able to point out that it produces ovens as well? Depends on how big that company is in the fridge market. Using a monopoly power in one market to dominate another is textbook abuse of monopoly power and exactly why MS got sued for IE back in the day.
- dvtrn 5y ago
  Pointing it out once is potentially helpful. Continuing to point it out after you’ve acknowledged it is called “nagging”. It’s annoying. Really that simple.
- InCityDreams 5y ago
  >Why shouldn't a company that sold me a refrigerator be able to point out that it produces ovens as well? How often would be too much? What if you already bought an oven and it was still 'pointing out' that the company produces fridges (like you just bought) as well? Every six weeks acceptable? I accept that when i go downtown/ to a shop my eyeballs count. But inside my home, on my systems? No thanks.
orf 5y ago
Saying “hey why not try this” as a small easily dismissible notification is very, very different from what’s shown in the tweets.
- goosedragons 5y ago
  No, it really isn't. Especially since the options are "Try now" and "Later" with no "Never" or some other easy way to permanently stop it.
  - orf 5y ago
    You really can’t see a difference between > “you don't need to download a new browser, we recommend Edge” > “to protect your pc we recommend only running ms verified apps, use Edge” And > “try safari, it’s energy efficient” If not, look a bit harder.
    - goosedragons 5y ago
      No I don't. They're both advertisements. One happens only at install. The other when you use a competitors program. Both are despicable behaviors from an OS. It's like asking whether I prefer dog or cat turds on my carpet. They're both turds.
      - orf 5y ago
        That’s reductionist to the point of stupidity. They are also both words, so I guess there’s no difference between them and this comment? Except words have meaning, and the differences between these meanings are important. One set of words is telling you that you are not safe unless you use this browser. It’s implying you’re making a mistake by using Firefox, and in both cases it’s saying “the people who make your computer are telling you to use this thing”. Non technical people are easily fooled by this. It’s scary. The other one is saying “hey, Safari exists” in the corner of your screen. There’s a big difference between these two.
        5y ago
raverbashing 5y ago
The secret is to not use Safari ;) (which is slightly better than Edge, but just slightly)
- InCityDreams 5y ago
  I use Brave on w10. How do you validate one browser being 'slightly better' (even 'just') than another? Me? I just like brave. The rest can all FO for now. I used to try new/ different ones irregularly but brave just seems ok-for-me for now.

baal80spam 5y ago

I don't use Apple products but I don't think this is outrageous or something. Why shouldn't a company that sold me a refrigerator be able to point out that it produces ovens as well? Of course I despise what Microsoft does, it's absolutely over the top.

nicce 5y ago
”Helpful” notification is much less than Microsoft is doing indeed. After all, Mac is commercial OS and Safari is their product so at least a little bit is allowed. But Microsoft is closer and closer banning anything they don’t want.
goosedragons 5y ago
Because its annoying and ridiculous? They also do it WHEN you open another web browser. Imagine if your Acme fridge had a camera that noticed every time you opened your non-Acme oven and bleated out "Try the new Acme Oven! You'll love its efficiency and design!". Is that okay?
- playpause 5y ago
  Maybe they do that once? They definitely don’t do it every time you open Chrome. That would be ridiculous.
  - goosedragons 5y ago
    You're right thats its not actually every time but neither is this Edge install thing. If you click "Later" I think it won't do it for 3 days according to this blog post [0] and I think that's still accurate. If you hit Try Now I think you get a little more time to whenever Apple updates Safari/macOS. [0] https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/how-to-osx-try-safari-promotion.html https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/how-to-osx-try-safari-promotion....
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      Once a year when Apple does an OS release isn’t too unreasonable. Apple’s iOS policy is completely unreasonable, but IMO Mac has stayed quite ok. The only thing I really don’t like is the rigmarole you have to click through when opening an app from the internet for the first time, but that can be turned off (and it will stay off)
- bene_legionary 5y ago
  Compared to Windows, the notifications for trying Safari are nothing, and switching browsers aren't so much of a hassle. Microsoft actively tries to push you to Edge in the settings and a to get a Microsoft Account at start up. A couple of times I've been stopped at start up because of the "You need to finish updating" screen with those prompts, sometimes afterwards I see that my taskbar now has the Mail and Edge app pinned automatically. In comparison my Macbook throws up an ignorable notification in the corner if I open Firefox. For your analogy, your Microsoft Fridge is turning off the power supply for your house unless you go and turn it back on by yourself or buy the Microsoft Oven.
jacquesm 5y ago
If people accept it, then it will get normalized, then the next level of abuse will come and you'll be happy because the water is only going up a degree or two. Frogs are best boiled slowly. They'll never notice, the suckers.
- the-dude 5y ago
  Do you have any proof for the boiled frog myth? Would love to read.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    I don't think we need to rehash that bit over and over again, it's a well known that the story is apocryphal but it serves as a useful metaphor, which I think by calling it a myth you are well aware of. Or were you genuinely interested in boiling living frogs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
- playpause 5y ago
  I think this logic should be reserved for the cases where it really matters, like the erosion of freedom of speech. Potentially permanent changes. This is just slimy sales tactics. The level of ‘acceptable to most people’ swings back and forth. It’s not a slippery slope.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    It really matters. That it doesn't matter to you is something I'm fine with, but user freedom to use their computers as intended is not something that is trivial to me.
    - playpause 5y ago
      It does matter to me, I hate it when slimy sales tactics are the norm. I’m saying the boiling frog idea does not really apply here. It is essentially a spam issue.
black_puppydog 5y ago
> Why shouldn't a company that sold me a refrigerator be able to point out that it produces ovens as well? Depends on how big that company is in the fridge market. Using a monopoly power in one market to dominate another is textbook abuse of monopoly power and exactly why MS got sued for IE back in the day.
dvtrn 5y ago
Pointing it out once is potentially helpful. Continuing to point it out after you’ve acknowledged it is called “nagging”. It’s annoying. Really that simple.
InCityDreams 5y ago
>Why shouldn't a company that sold me a refrigerator be able to point out that it produces ovens as well? How often would be too much? What if you already bought an oven and it was still 'pointing out' that the company produces fridges (like you just bought) as well? Every six weeks acceptable? I accept that when i go downtown/ to a shop my eyeballs count. But inside my home, on my systems? No thanks.

orf 5y ago

Saying “hey why not try this” as a small easily dismissible notification is very, very different from what’s shown in the tweets.

goosedragons 5y ago
No, it really isn't. Especially since the options are "Try now" and "Later" with no "Never" or some other easy way to permanently stop it.
- orf 5y ago
  You really can’t see a difference between > “you don't need to download a new browser, we recommend Edge” > “to protect your pc we recommend only running ms verified apps, use Edge” And > “try safari, it’s energy efficient” If not, look a bit harder.
  - goosedragons 5y ago
    No I don't. They're both advertisements. One happens only at install. The other when you use a competitors program. Both are despicable behaviors from an OS. It's like asking whether I prefer dog or cat turds on my carpet. They're both turds.
    - orf 5y ago
      That’s reductionist to the point of stupidity. They are also both words, so I guess there’s no difference between them and this comment? Except words have meaning, and the differences between these meanings are important. One set of words is telling you that you are not safe unless you use this browser. It’s implying you’re making a mistake by using Firefox, and in both cases it’s saying “the people who make your computer are telling you to use this thing”. Non technical people are easily fooled by this. It’s scary. The other one is saying “hey, Safari exists” in the corner of your screen. There’s a big difference between these two.
      - 5y ago

raverbashing 5y ago

The secret is to not use Safari ;) (which is slightly better than Edge, but just slightly)

InCityDreams 5y ago
I use Brave on w10. How do you validate one browser being 'slightly better' (even 'just') than another? Me? I just like brave. The rest can all FO for now. I used to try new/ different ones irregularly but brave just seems ok-for-me for now.