4 ms·

> And I wouldn't be surprised if it has come up in discussions, too. This is an oddly hostile take about one of the best corporate citizens the web has, IMO.

> And I wouldn't be surprised if it has come up in discussions, too. This is an oddly hostile take about one of the best corporate citizens the web has, IMO. There is an open question about what happens to the theme market generally once truly block-configurable themes exist (how many themes are necessary, really?) but pivoting that into some evil empire fantasy about Automattic -- a business that rescued Tumblr, that bought Simplenote to run it for free forever without ads simply because Matt Mullenweg depends on it -- seems a little odd.

skilled 5y ago
I think you're being a bit too sensitive about what I said. There was nothing hostile about it, but a simple matter of fact. Even if they don't have that intention now, they will have to discuss it because their roadmap will dramatically change what WordPress is and what it can do. Which is why I said it will take a long time, but it is heading in that direction. They already released Patterns[0], which is very tiny inside look on where they plan to go with Gutenberg. Yeah, they might look cheap and not so attractive, but ultimately the ability to customize "blocks" is already there - it's just a matter of time before the capabilities of that customizer get cranked up to the max. [0]: https://wordpress.org/patterns/ https://wordpress.org/patterns/
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  Right, yes, they added patterns. It's a very important new feature that reflects the change in the way people can lay out rich content. But -- considering patterns can be used by every third party theme in an open source CMS -- how do you get to talking about developers unionizing (that is, under threat from some corporate entity) and Automattic taking over that business from there? The reason I read it like a corporate big bad wolf fantasy is that you wrote it like one.
  - skilled 5y ago
    Yes, it just hit me as to why you misunderstood me. I think because WordPress.org is heading into a direction of being a website builder itself, it will naturally hurt developers/businesses who make their living off of it. Yeah, cool and exciting designs might still have a market, but for blogs, magazine sites, portfolios - that ~$50 for a premium theme might be better spent elsewhere. I don't know if you're familiar with Webflow[0], but it started out as yet another website builder. And, in recent years they have added so many features and layout templates that I once got confused seeing the "Made with Webflow" badge on a landing page. It had all modern features like smooth page transitions, svg animations, cool gallery effects, etc,. You know, the things people pay that $50 for. If this happens, or rather when it happens, maybe Automattic will have to think hard about what it wants the future to look like. [0]: https://webflow.com/ https://webflow.com/
    - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
      Yeah -- it absolutely is headed in the direction of being a website builder with luxury competition (Squarespace; Wix is no luxury, it's a torture). And I must say, even though I have developed themes in the past, I'd prefer to see Gutenberg succeed in making most themes irrelevant. Themes that can be customised without PHP entirely seem to me to be a good solution to a lot of people's complaints about the untidy boundary between plugins and themes. I am only familiar with Webflow from people who say "I've been trying to do this in Webflow but I'd prefer if we could do it in Wordpress".

skilled 5y ago

I think you're being a bit too sensitive about what I said. There was nothing hostile about it, but a simple matter of fact. Even if they don't have that intention now, they will have to discuss it because their roadmap will dramatically change what WordPress is and what it can do. Which is why I said it will take a long time, but it is heading in that direction. They already released Patterns[0], which is very tiny inside look on where they plan to go with Gutenberg. Yeah, they might look cheap and not so attractive, but ultimately the ability to customize "blocks" is already there - it's just a matter of time before the capabilities of that customizer get cranked up to the max. [0]: https://wordpress.org/patterns/ https://wordpress.org/patterns/

unfocussed_mike 5y ago
Right, yes, they added patterns. It's a very important new feature that reflects the change in the way people can lay out rich content. But -- considering patterns can be used by every third party theme in an open source CMS -- how do you get to talking about developers unionizing (that is, under threat from some corporate entity) and Automattic taking over that business from there? The reason I read it like a corporate big bad wolf fantasy is that you wrote it like one.
- skilled 5y ago
  Yes, it just hit me as to why you misunderstood me. I think because WordPress.org is heading into a direction of being a website builder itself, it will naturally hurt developers/businesses who make their living off of it. Yeah, cool and exciting designs might still have a market, but for blogs, magazine sites, portfolios - that ~$50 for a premium theme might be better spent elsewhere. I don't know if you're familiar with Webflow[0], but it started out as yet another website builder. And, in recent years they have added so many features and layout templates that I once got confused seeing the "Made with Webflow" badge on a landing page. It had all modern features like smooth page transitions, svg animations, cool gallery effects, etc,. You know, the things people pay that $50 for. If this happens, or rather when it happens, maybe Automattic will have to think hard about what it wants the future to look like. [0]: https://webflow.com/ https://webflow.com/
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    Yeah -- it absolutely is headed in the direction of being a website builder with luxury competition (Squarespace; Wix is no luxury, it's a torture). And I must say, even though I have developed themes in the past, I'd prefer to see Gutenberg succeed in making most themes irrelevant. Themes that can be customised without PHP entirely seem to me to be a good solution to a lot of people's complaints about the untidy boundary between plugins and themes. I am only familiar with Webflow from people who say "I've been trying to do this in Webflow but I'd prefer if we could do it in Wordpress".