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I got a kid who "does the chores". The reason they do it is that they've been educated since very young age (3+) to have responsibilities: cleaning, tidying up,

I got a kid who "does the chores". The reason they do it is that they've been educated since very young age (3+) to have responsibilities: cleaning, tidying up, setting/clearing the table and so on. They have their own hoover and drying rack. I believe it's ultimately a matter of underlying philosophy of treating children like "young adults" or not, with all the consequences, as the roles are set from very young age. I know parents who are horrified when they hear about 5 years old children cleaning up after themselves; with their model though, they set the role of "incapable children" and "providing parents" - "teaching" them to do the "chores" later will be hard, because it's not in the role they've taught. I also disagree with the term "chore". It's true that they're boring, but this term disconnects tasks from their purposes; if nobody, say, sets and clears the table, nobody can eat. It's crucial to have in mind that chores/tasks always have a purpose. If a child is grown up as "incapable", there's no connection between task and purpose, and actually, it's rational to refuse to perform any task ("chore"), because it's part of somebody else's responsibilities (the "providing parent").

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
agumonkey 5y ago
On a documentary, a couple of blind people had a daughter. She kinda helped in every tasks, and with a natural care. It was a deep collaboration all the time. To me it's as if being blind made her parents unable to play games (being selfish, bossy, lying) with the girl, and included her in everything as a team member, and she naturally rose to the challenge by giving her full attention. Maybe I'm wrong but it left a strong memory in me.
- endominus 5y ago
  You wouldn't happen to recall the name of the documentary would you? That sounds like an interesting watch.
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    I said documentary but it was tiny french lunch news video (15min) about blind couples from 15 years ago, I tried to google generic terms but got nothing. to add to the video, it was overwhelming to see the trio operate in such sweet harmony (as opposed to the fun or sometimes not so fun chaos of the usual family)
shigi42 5y ago
Treating children like "young adults" makes so much sense. There must be some limits to it, of course. Can anybody recommend a good article or a book by a psychologist/psychiatrist elaborating this topic?
- kqr 5y ago
  It's not quite what you are asking for, but I think you'd be interested in NurtureShock. It investigates common parenting sense with a foot in the evidence and finds a lot of things that don't quite add up. (One typical finding that relates to the "small adult" thing is that it's beneficial to discuss race and racial issues surprisingly early.) Although it's ostensibly aimed at adults, Dan Pink's Drive is a useful reference for what motivates people, including children. When we're at it, I also learned a lot about what can and cannot be taught to children from The Nurture Assumption.
- bigDinosaur 5y ago
  I think often the hard part is establishing just what treating kids like 'young adults' means. They're fairly different (for better and for worse) so it can be hard to apply certain things that might work on a real young adult (I think certain kinds of negotiations are where this is most clear).
  - pizza234 5y ago
    > I think often the hard part is establishing just what treating kids like 'young adults' means. This is very true. A couple of actionable principles that pop out of my mind: 1. if a child can physically do a task, they should do it, at most, with some help. In addition to home "chores", even small, principled actions, like paying their purchases by themselves, and even phone calls (again, with help). 2. lead by example and not verbally; classic example: don't consume junk food, rather than consuming it and (separately) teaching that it's bad. This is very hard, but it gives parents an entirely different credibility. This approach works when it's started early though (especially point 1). I have no idea if I could make this work (I think not) if I had to deal with a 10-years old child who had a different upbringing.
- 5y ago
slothtrop 5y ago
Intuitively I expect that the earlier the pattern is set, the easier it will be later. I don't think chores need to be spun as anything other than what they are; I'm a fully grown adult and don't care for a good deal of them, but I have the ingrained habit not to defer them indefinitely. Once you get going it's not so bad, I do a lot of daydreaming during routines. On the other hand, I don't think I would have a hefty list of expectations. You're only a child once. My labor expectations are low, I just want them to have constructive / creative go-to activities when playing. Overscheduling or putting them to work all the time just robs them of childhood experience that they'll never get again. Putting away toys and cleaning up after a mess is a reasonable ask, as they need to learn to take care of themselves and not live like slobs into adulthood.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

agumonkey 5y ago

On a documentary, a couple of blind people had a daughter. She kinda helped in every tasks, and with a natural care. It was a deep collaboration all the time. To me it's as if being blind made her parents unable to play games (being selfish, bossy, lying) with the girl, and included her in everything as a team member, and she naturally rose to the challenge by giving her full attention. Maybe I'm wrong but it left a strong memory in me.

endominus 5y ago
You wouldn't happen to recall the name of the documentary would you? That sounds like an interesting watch.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  I said documentary but it was tiny french lunch news video (15min) about blind couples from 15 years ago, I tried to google generic terms but got nothing. to add to the video, it was overwhelming to see the trio operate in such sweet harmony (as opposed to the fun or sometimes not so fun chaos of the usual family)

shigi42 5y ago

Treating children like "young adults" makes so much sense. There must be some limits to it, of course. Can anybody recommend a good article or a book by a psychologist/psychiatrist elaborating this topic?

kqr 5y ago
It's not quite what you are asking for, but I think you'd be interested in NurtureShock. It investigates common parenting sense with a foot in the evidence and finds a lot of things that don't quite add up. (One typical finding that relates to the "small adult" thing is that it's beneficial to discuss race and racial issues surprisingly early.) Although it's ostensibly aimed at adults, Dan Pink's Drive is a useful reference for what motivates people, including children. When we're at it, I also learned a lot about what can and cannot be taught to children from The Nurture Assumption.
bigDinosaur 5y ago
I think often the hard part is establishing just what treating kids like 'young adults' means. They're fairly different (for better and for worse) so it can be hard to apply certain things that might work on a real young adult (I think certain kinds of negotiations are where this is most clear).
- pizza234 5y ago
  > I think often the hard part is establishing just what treating kids like 'young adults' means. This is very true. A couple of actionable principles that pop out of my mind: 1. if a child can physically do a task, they should do it, at most, with some help. In addition to home "chores", even small, principled actions, like paying their purchases by themselves, and even phone calls (again, with help). 2. lead by example and not verbally; classic example: don't consume junk food, rather than consuming it and (separately) teaching that it's bad. This is very hard, but it gives parents an entirely different credibility. This approach works when it's started early though (especially point 1). I have no idea if I could make this work (I think not) if I had to deal with a 10-years old child who had a different upbringing.
5y ago

slothtrop 5y ago

Intuitively I expect that the earlier the pattern is set, the easier it will be later. I don't think chores need to be spun as anything other than what they are; I'm a fully grown adult and don't care for a good deal of them, but I have the ingrained habit not to defer them indefinitely. Once you get going it's not so bad, I do a lot of daydreaming during routines. On the other hand, I don't think I would have a hefty list of expectations. You're only a child once. My labor expectations are low, I just want them to have constructive / creative go-to activities when playing. Overscheduling or putting them to work all the time just robs them of childhood experience that they'll never get again. Putting away toys and cleaning up after a mess is a reasonable ask, as they need to learn to take care of themselves and not live like slobs into adulthood.