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Unless you’re a super genius or are super lucky, you’re likely not going to make a dent in any field especially at a PhD level. Not in these days at least. But

Unless you’re a super genius or are super lucky, you’re likely not going to make a dent in any field especially at a PhD level. Not in these days at least. But the product of a PhD, according to me and many mentors I respect, is you. It’s your mind and experience (not even necessarily the knowledge). A good phd fundamentally transforms who you are as a person. I’d wager a PhD is probably the most reliable way to effect real change in your mind as an adult. I probably realistically lost millions I could have earned in my twenties because I spent 9 years on my higher education (which has nothing to do with what I do now). But I’d not have done most anything different about it! Caveat being that it needs to be a good PhD with a good mentor - which is harder to find than a good job or even a good partner lol.

vasco 5y ago
> I’d wager a PhD is probably the most reliable way to effect real change in your mind as an adult Not sure how you define change, but I'm pretty sure one experience with psychedelics is going to effect more change in about 4 hours than a PhD in 4 years. Not the same type of change, granted.
- ramraj07 5y ago
  At least according to Feynman many of his successful colleagues said psychedelics helped them with their imagination. But I’ve not heard of anyone doing great science (or great anything really) because they went on a trip. It looks more like the Lu just get happier about their life but nothing else.
  - vasco 5y ago
    You talked about changing your mind and transforming as a person, not doing great science.
  - _Wintermute 5y ago
    > But I’ve not heard of anyone doing great science (or great anything really) because they went on a trip. Kary Mullis claims to have come up with the idea for PCR while on an LSD trip, though he also said a lot of nonsense so I'm not sure you should be too much weight on that.
  - mbeex 5y ago
    But he also mentioned in one of his popular books about his own experiments in this regard that he stopped playing with these things because he considered the health of his brain too valuable for that.
- akuro 5y ago
  I'm three years into a PhD and during that time have tried some very potent psychedelics (psilocybin mushrooms, LSD, DMT and mescaline). Fearless experimentation - nothing more than science, right? :) The change I've experienced throughout my PhD (that is, becoming a confident researcher with at least some depth to his ideas) has probably been more intense and almost certainly more long-lasting than my psychedelic experiences. Nurturing an uncomfortable familiarity with the immense limits of my knowledge, as well as regularly pushing myself to exhaustion in order to overcome those limits - inch by milimiter by angstrom - has completely transformed me as a person. If anything psychedelics had the effect of making me believe that I had become enlightened to various true-natures-of-everything whilst providing me very little concrete understanding as to why this was the case. Much of the personal change that followed my experiences were less due to the substances and more due to my own desire for those experiences to mean something in the long run. Psychs are great and I'd recommend it wholeheartedly for those who have the courage (note: that's not to say that the classical psychedelics are dangerous - they're only dangerous for people who are scared of them). It is my opinion that one should not start believing that these things anything more than chemicals that make you feel a certain way, or help you along the path to doing so.
- DonHopkins 5y ago
  If you really want to change your mind, then get a PhD in psychedelics!
erdos4d 5y ago
> A good phd fundamentally transforms who you are as a person. Huh? I've heard this a lot and I just don't see it. What is supposed to happen to you? I got one in math, published my 3 papers like they wanted, and that was it. I don't think I changed me one bit, other than not enjoying education/academia anymore.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Maybe what they mean is that if it didn't transform you, you did it wrong.
  - erdos4d 5y ago
    I see. How was I supposed to "do it right"?
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      Dunno, haven't got one myself.
- ramraj07 5y ago
  I’d argue that you didn’t do a good PhD then? Even it’s original intent was to be an understudy and learn how to do research and create new knowledge. This changes slightly between fields but my take away is that a good PhD teaches you to find, and respect your boundaries, while constantly trying to push it. It teaches you to plan years ahead and work towards goals that are simultaneously abstract but large as well, with concrete practical steps. It should make “learning” second nature to you, where you don’t need courses or classes any more: you learn whatever you need to accomplish the project at hand. If you’re able to do all of those things even before a PhD then I suppose you’re born gifted. Also it should never be about just the fucking papers. Either you get them or you don’t who cares. Not me at least.
  - erdos4d 5y ago
    I get what you are saying, I just thought all of those things were either present or absent in a person way before going to university even, let alone getting a PhD. If you are not a self learner, I don't see how you can even excel in university in the first place, at least not in a heavily technical subject. No professor is really going to explain how any of that stuff works, if anything they are going to keep it vague and try to weed you out. You have to be able to read texts and make sense of it on your own, maybe with the occasional question to your prof for a detail or two, but if you cannot do 98% of the learning, you are toast. At least in math which I did, there is no way a person can lean on faculty for their knowledge, it really is up to you.

vasco 5y ago

> I’d wager a PhD is probably the most reliable way to effect real change in your mind as an adult Not sure how you define change, but I'm pretty sure one experience with psychedelics is going to effect more change in about 4 hours than a PhD in 4 years. Not the same type of change, granted.

ramraj07 5y ago
At least according to Feynman many of his successful colleagues said psychedelics helped them with their imagination. But I’ve not heard of anyone doing great science (or great anything really) because they went on a trip. It looks more like the Lu just get happier about their life but nothing else.
- vasco 5y ago
  You talked about changing your mind and transforming as a person, not doing great science.
- _Wintermute 5y ago
  > But I’ve not heard of anyone doing great science (or great anything really) because they went on a trip. Kary Mullis claims to have come up with the idea for PCR while on an LSD trip, though he also said a lot of nonsense so I'm not sure you should be too much weight on that.
- mbeex 5y ago
  But he also mentioned in one of his popular books about his own experiments in this regard that he stopped playing with these things because he considered the health of his brain too valuable for that.
akuro 5y ago
I'm three years into a PhD and during that time have tried some very potent psychedelics (psilocybin mushrooms, LSD, DMT and mescaline). Fearless experimentation - nothing more than science, right? :) The change I've experienced throughout my PhD (that is, becoming a confident researcher with at least some depth to his ideas) has probably been more intense and almost certainly more long-lasting than my psychedelic experiences. Nurturing an uncomfortable familiarity with the immense limits of my knowledge, as well as regularly pushing myself to exhaustion in order to overcome those limits - inch by milimiter by angstrom - has completely transformed me as a person. If anything psychedelics had the effect of making me believe that I had become enlightened to various true-natures-of-everything whilst providing me very little concrete understanding as to why this was the case. Much of the personal change that followed my experiences were less due to the substances and more due to my own desire for those experiences to mean something in the long run. Psychs are great and I'd recommend it wholeheartedly for those who have the courage (note: that's not to say that the classical psychedelics are dangerous - they're only dangerous for people who are scared of them). It is my opinion that one should not start believing that these things anything more than chemicals that make you feel a certain way, or help you along the path to doing so.
DonHopkins 5y ago
If you really want to change your mind, then get a PhD in psychedelics!

erdos4d 5y ago

> A good phd fundamentally transforms who you are as a person. Huh? I've heard this a lot and I just don't see it. What is supposed to happen to you? I got one in math, published my 3 papers like they wanted, and that was it. I don't think I changed me one bit, other than not enjoying education/academia anymore.

ncmncm 5y ago
Maybe what they mean is that if it didn't transform you, you did it wrong.
- erdos4d 5y ago
  I see. How was I supposed to "do it right"?
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    Dunno, haven't got one myself.
ramraj07 5y ago
I’d argue that you didn’t do a good PhD then? Even it’s original intent was to be an understudy and learn how to do research and create new knowledge. This changes slightly between fields but my take away is that a good PhD teaches you to find, and respect your boundaries, while constantly trying to push it. It teaches you to plan years ahead and work towards goals that are simultaneously abstract but large as well, with concrete practical steps. It should make “learning” second nature to you, where you don’t need courses or classes any more: you learn whatever you need to accomplish the project at hand. If you’re able to do all of those things even before a PhD then I suppose you’re born gifted. Also it should never be about just the fucking papers. Either you get them or you don’t who cares. Not me at least.
- erdos4d 5y ago
  I get what you are saying, I just thought all of those things were either present or absent in a person way before going to university even, let alone getting a PhD. If you are not a self learner, I don't see how you can even excel in university in the first place, at least not in a heavily technical subject. No professor is really going to explain how any of that stuff works, if anything they are going to keep it vague and try to weed you out. You have to be able to read texts and make sense of it on your own, maybe with the occasional question to your prof for a detail or two, but if you cannot do 98% of the learning, you are toast. At least in math which I did, there is no way a person can lean on faculty for their knowledge, it really is up to you.