3 ms·

According to what numbers? E.g. https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-ratio-of-housing-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/23752

by avar 5y ago

According to what numbers? E.g. https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-ratio-of-housing-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-r... shows the US as rather decent, but many European countries seem to beat it on affordability, It's also hard to define "income" without going into all the direct and indirect subsidies and income, e.g. is it adjusted for US health car spending coming out of "income", which you'd get for "free" in universal health care countries. Ditto living in Paris and not needed a car. v.s. that being the case in the US.

xyzzyz 5y ago
Yes, as you can observe, most of Europe less affordable to locals than US is, some places quite a bit more so. But I specifically said metros, where the situation is much worse. Rural housing, and housing in third or fourth tier cities in Europe can be indeed quite cheap. However, housing in second and first tier European cities is insanely expensive. Here's an example: one of the countries that looks more affordable to US is Italy. Let's take a look at the the top metro in Italy, Milan. Milan is now at around 4800 EUR/square meter. Average individual income is around 32k EUR/year, so average household income will be probably under 60k EUR/year, i.e. 5k EUR/mo. That means that a 100 square meter (~1100 square feet) dwelling will cost you just under half a million euros, your monthly mortgage will be something like 2k EUR, so your mortgage will be 40% of your before-tax household income. If you're unmarried, and making average wage, your chances of affording anything bigger than a one-bedroom are extremely slim, and even that will stretch your finances a lot. The above is by no means extraordinary. Try doing the same for Rome or Florence, they are just as unaffordable as Milan. Bologna is slightly more affordable than that, but still less than NYC. And Italy is relatively affordable as far as Europe goes! Do the same for Netherlands, or UK metros, or France, or Germany. Truly, urban housing in US is very affordable all across the board.
- fulafel 5y ago
  Italy has been in headlines about this for years, young people living with parents into their 30s due to low incomes and high unemployment. At the same time income stats vs other WEU countries are problematic as the shadow economy is much larger.
  - xyzzyz 5y ago
    It is true that Italy is not affordable at all for young, unmarried people, despite being overall more affordable than Europe average. It only makes it clear how bad the situation is in Europe, and how Americans have no idea how good and affordable housing in US is. At the same time, prolonged living with parents, and multi generational households have, for many past centuries, been rather common in southern Europe, much more so than in the western, or, especially, northern Europe. Very high rates of living with parents is not necessarily indicative of economic situation, one also needs to consider cultural patterns.

by avar 5y ago

xyzzyz 5y ago

Yes, as you can observe, most of Europe less affordable to locals than US is, some places quite a bit more so. But I specifically said metros, where the situation is much worse. Rural housing, and housing in third or fourth tier cities in Europe can be indeed quite cheap. However, housing in second and first tier European cities is insanely expensive. Here's an example: one of the countries that looks more affordable to US is Italy. Let's take a look at the the top metro in Italy, Milan. Milan is now at around 4800 EUR/square meter. Average individual income is around 32k EUR/year, so average household income will be probably under 60k EUR/year, i.e. 5k EUR/mo. That means that a 100 square meter (~1100 square feet) dwelling will cost you just under half a million euros, your monthly mortgage will be something like 2k EUR, so your mortgage will be 40% of your before-tax household income. If you're unmarried, and making average wage, your chances of affording anything bigger than a one-bedroom are extremely slim, and even that will stretch your finances a lot. The above is by no means extraordinary. Try doing the same for Rome or Florence, they are just as unaffordable as Milan. Bologna is slightly more affordable than that, but still less than NYC. And Italy is relatively affordable as far as Europe goes! Do the same for Netherlands, or UK metros, or France, or Germany. Truly, urban housing in US is very affordable all across the board.

fulafel 5y ago
Italy has been in headlines about this for years, young people living with parents into their 30s due to low incomes and high unemployment. At the same time income stats vs other WEU countries are problematic as the shadow economy is much larger.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  It is true that Italy is not affordable at all for young, unmarried people, despite being overall more affordable than Europe average. It only makes it clear how bad the situation is in Europe, and how Americans have no idea how good and affordable housing in US is. At the same time, prolonged living with parents, and multi generational households have, for many past centuries, been rather common in southern Europe, much more so than in the western, or, especially, northern Europe. Very high rates of living with parents is not necessarily indicative of economic situation, one also needs to consider cultural patterns.