4 ms·

I would really like to see a reference for that. Just to state one potential counter argument: as far as I know most road damage is caused by trucks (I don't r

by ascar 5y ago

I would really like to see a reference for that. Just to state one potential counter argument: as far as I know most road damage is caused by trucks (I don't remember exactly but IIRC there is a quadratic or even cubic relation between weight per wheel and applied force to the asphalt), so most road maintenance cost is not related to personal car usage.

SECProto 5y ago
The depth of a road (thickness of asphalt and granular layers) is determined largely by the loading (i.e. how many big trucks will be travelling on it). The width of a road (# of lanes) is determined mostly by how many vehicles per hour are travelling on it, which means mostly cars. The width of a lane is determined by how many large vehicles per hour are travelling on it, which means buses and trucks. The grade of a road (how steep it is) is generally determined by the lowest weight-to-power ratio, i.e. fully loaded transports The grade of asphalt used is determined by annual average maximum and minimum temperatures, how many heavy vehicles will be using it, and how many vehicles total will be using it (lower grades of asphalt can be used on smaller streets, lower quality binder can used in areas with less temperature variation, and asphalt with higher quantity of coarse aggregate and larger compactive effort has to be used if it's a truck/bus route) The frequency a road is resurfaced is governed by a few things, frequency of heavy road users is a big one (but at least in my local area, the number of freeze-thaw cycles is more important) All that is to say: road damage is largely caused by trucks and freeze-thaw cycles, but cost of the road is largely governed by how many lanes of traffic there are, which is caused by cars. Remove all the cars from your street and a two lane non-divided highway with a passing lane every couple KM would suffice in most places.
matsemann 5y ago
Here's a source for Norway. The article links to a 300+ page pdf done by the Norwegian "transport economics Institute". https://www.morgenbladet.no/ideer/kommentar/2022/02/15/enorme-vei-investeringer-og-klimapolitikk-er-blitt-en-gullgruve-for-bilister/ https://www.morgenbladet.no/ideer/kommentar/2022/02/15/enorm... Basically, a car in Norway is subsidized with on average 10000nok / 1200usd per year, so not even close to paying for its own use. This also doesn't include the fact that electric cars don't pay any taxes when bought, so society is losing out a lot there as well given that 90% of all new cars now are electric. Here's a German paper saying that the society bears 40% of the costs associated with owning a car: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800921003943?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092180092...
adhesive_wombat 5y ago
It's not quadratic or cubic: it's the fourth power. Somewhat mitigated by large vehicles having more axles, but each of those axles counts. So if a 40 tonne lorry has 5 axles, the vehicle does (5/2 * (40/5)^4/(2/2)^4) = 10240 times the damage of a big car weighing 2 tonnes, and 163840 times the damage of a car weighing 1 tonne. Which, does mean that the vast majority of road wear is down to heavy vehicles. But it does also means an SUV or a Tesla (2 tonnes) causes 16 times the damage of a Micra (1 tonne).

by ascar 5y ago

SECProto 5y ago

The depth of a road (thickness of asphalt and granular layers) is determined largely by the loading (i.e. how many big trucks will be travelling on it). The width of a road (# of lanes) is determined mostly by how many vehicles per hour are travelling on it, which means mostly cars. The width of a lane is determined by how many large vehicles per hour are travelling on it, which means buses and trucks. The grade of a road (how steep it is) is generally determined by the lowest weight-to-power ratio, i.e. fully loaded transports The grade of asphalt used is determined by annual average maximum and minimum temperatures, how many heavy vehicles will be using it, and how many vehicles total will be using it (lower grades of asphalt can be used on smaller streets, lower quality binder can used in areas with less temperature variation, and asphalt with higher quantity of coarse aggregate and larger compactive effort has to be used if it's a truck/bus route) The frequency a road is resurfaced is governed by a few things, frequency of heavy road users is a big one (but at least in my local area, the number of freeze-thaw cycles is more important) All that is to say: road damage is largely caused by trucks and freeze-thaw cycles, but cost of the road is largely governed by how many lanes of traffic there are, which is caused by cars. Remove all the cars from your street and a two lane non-divided highway with a passing lane every couple KM would suffice in most places.

matsemann 5y ago

Here's a source for Norway. The article links to a 300+ page pdf done by the Norwegian "transport economics Institute". https://www.morgenbladet.no/ideer/kommentar/2022/02/15/enorme-vei-investeringer-og-klimapolitikk-er-blitt-en-gullgruve-for-bilister/ https://www.morgenbladet.no/ideer/kommentar/2022/02/15/enorm... Basically, a car in Norway is subsidized with on average 10000nok / 1200usd per year, so not even close to paying for its own use. This also doesn't include the fact that electric cars don't pay any taxes when bought, so society is losing out a lot there as well given that 90% of all new cars now are electric. Here's a German paper saying that the society bears 40% of the costs associated with owning a car: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800921003943?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092180092...

adhesive_wombat 5y ago

It's not quadratic or cubic: it's the fourth power. Somewhat mitigated by large vehicles having more axles, but each of those axles counts. So if a 40 tonne lorry has 5 axles, the vehicle does (5/2 * (40/5)^4/(2/2)^4) = 10240 times the damage of a big car weighing 2 tonnes, and 163840 times the damage of a car weighing 1 tonne. Which, does mean that the vast majority of road wear is down to heavy vehicles. But it does also means an SUV or a Tesla (2 tonnes) causes 16 times the damage of a Micra (1 tonne).