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> Try and explain how to boot a MacBookPro from USB stick to someone You hold down the Option key while booting. > Or explain how to dual boot a Mac with OSX

by nknight 15y ago

> Try and explain how to boot a MacBookPro from USB stick to someone You hold down the Option key while booting. > Or explain how to dual boot a Mac with OSX and Linux Install rEFIt (comes in a nice, standard OS X installer package), use the nice GUI Bootcamp or Disk Utility apps to make a partition, insert the Linux CD, reboot while holding down C. If you're incapable of following these instructions, I seriously doubt you can manage to boot from a USB stick or dual-boot Windows and Linux on any typical PC.

DanBC 15y ago
Holding down option while booting does not work for USB media on MacBook Pro. (But sure, this will work for optical media.) You've just managed to give the wrong information to someone, and call them stupid at the same time.
- nknight 15y ago
  http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1948 http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1948 Where's the problem?
  - DanBC 15y ago
    Did you read the page you posted? The external USB device:- >Contains an installation of Mac OS X 10.4.5 or later, or Mac OS X 10.5 or later, which is compatible with (or shipped with) the Mac that the USB device is connected to. That's not Linux. Linux will not work with that method. Don't take my word for it; try it yourself, or ask Apple, or have a quick search of the "support" communities. See, for an example, this question on stack exchange: (http://superuser.com/q/27794/93703 http://superuser.com/q/27794/93703) Here are some people having trouble, and not getting much help (but lousy "support" is common to many distributions) - (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1266303?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1266303?start=0&tst...) (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2579995?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2579995?start=0&tst...) (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1723157?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1723157?start=0&tst...) You've still failed to understand the problem, and to provide a working fix.
    - nknight 15y ago
      #1: You've moved the goalpost. You "asked" how to boot a Mac from a USB stick, not for instructions on creating a bootable USB stick to boot an operating system not specifically intended to boot on a Mac. #2: That a particular kind of computer has certain requirements for booting that are not, by default, met by certain operating systems, has nothing to do with freedoms. The requirements aren't hidden, they're publicly documented, and can be easily accommodated by those operating systems if their developers desire. From my perspective, it seems like you're arguing that Apple restricts freedom because it doesn't follow 80s-era "standards" for partitioning and booting, but instead follows the newer EFI/GUID schemes. I find such a stance more amusing and ironic than credible, particularly considering Intel is largely responsible for both.
      - DanBC 15y ago
        You're right! I missed out 'linux' from "boot from USB". Sorry, I should have included that. Still, the point stands; booting Linux from USB is hard and not clearly documented anywhere and is tricky to explain to people. Maybe that's as designed, but there are so many of these design decisions that lock down the system to whatever Apple wants. And that jars with the "Think Different" sloganeering.
        nknight 15y ago
        I truly, honestly feel like you're fundamentally misunderstanding what has happened here. Apple made a technical decision to follow the newer partition table, booting, and "BIOS" (EFI) standards from Intel rather than continue to use the legacy systems from the 80s. Apple was an early adopter in this regard, but the standard is openly documented, and most recent x86-64 operating systems, including Linux and Windows 7, have support for it, even if it's not always used by default. The last thing I remember Apple doing that could be remotely construed as "locking down" a Mac was when they still used a proprietary/undocumented memory controller, but that hasn't been an issue in many (10-15?) years. They stopped doing that long before they even moved off of PowerPC chips in 2006. Thinking there's anything remotely nefarious here is very closely akin to arguing that any breaking of backwards compatibility is evil. This is just a new platform -- albeit one using the same instruction set as an existing one, and extremely easy to port to. It really isn't Apple's responsibility to ensure legacy operating systems they don't control support this new, documented platform.

by nknight 15y ago

DanBC 15y ago

Holding down option while booting does not work for USB media on MacBook Pro. (But sure, this will work for optical media.) You've just managed to give the wrong information to someone, and call them stupid at the same time.

nknight 15y ago
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1948 http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1948 Where's the problem?
- DanBC 15y ago
  Did you read the page you posted? The external USB device:- >Contains an installation of Mac OS X 10.4.5 or later, or Mac OS X 10.5 or later, which is compatible with (or shipped with) the Mac that the USB device is connected to. That's not Linux. Linux will not work with that method. Don't take my word for it; try it yourself, or ask Apple, or have a quick search of the "support" communities. See, for an example, this question on stack exchange: (http://superuser.com/q/27794/93703 http://superuser.com/q/27794/93703) Here are some people having trouble, and not getting much help (but lousy "support" is common to many distributions) - (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1266303?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1266303?start=0&tst...) (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2579995?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2579995?start=0&tst...) (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1723157?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1723157?start=0&tst...) You've still failed to understand the problem, and to provide a working fix.
  - nknight 15y ago
    #1: You've moved the goalpost. You "asked" how to boot a Mac from a USB stick, not for instructions on creating a bootable USB stick to boot an operating system not specifically intended to boot on a Mac. #2: That a particular kind of computer has certain requirements for booting that are not, by default, met by certain operating systems, has nothing to do with freedoms. The requirements aren't hidden, they're publicly documented, and can be easily accommodated by those operating systems if their developers desire. From my perspective, it seems like you're arguing that Apple restricts freedom because it doesn't follow 80s-era "standards" for partitioning and booting, but instead follows the newer EFI/GUID schemes. I find such a stance more amusing and ironic than credible, particularly considering Intel is largely responsible for both.
    - DanBC 15y ago
      You're right! I missed out 'linux' from "boot from USB". Sorry, I should have included that. Still, the point stands; booting Linux from USB is hard and not clearly documented anywhere and is tricky to explain to people. Maybe that's as designed, but there are so many of these design decisions that lock down the system to whatever Apple wants. And that jars with the "Think Different" sloganeering.
      - nknight 15y ago
        I truly, honestly feel like you're fundamentally misunderstanding what has happened here. Apple made a technical decision to follow the newer partition table, booting, and "BIOS" (EFI) standards from Intel rather than continue to use the legacy systems from the 80s. Apple was an early adopter in this regard, but the standard is openly documented, and most recent x86-64 operating systems, including Linux and Windows 7, have support for it, even if it's not always used by default. The last thing I remember Apple doing that could be remotely construed as "locking down" a Mac was when they still used a proprietary/undocumented memory controller, but that hasn't been an issue in many (10-15?) years. They stopped doing that long before they even moved off of PowerPC chips in 2006. Thinking there's anything remotely nefarious here is very closely akin to arguing that any breaking of backwards compatibility is evil. This is just a new platform -- albeit one using the same instruction set as an existing one, and extremely easy to port to. It really isn't Apple's responsibility to ensure legacy operating systems they don't control support this new, documented platform.