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I would agree with you if the interview process included ANY feedback to interviewees when they were rejected. Prior to COVID, I got flown to Seattle mid-week

I would agree with you if the interview process included ANY feedback to interviewees when they were rejected. Prior to COVID, I got flown to Seattle mid-week for 2 nights and interviewed well (the recruiter told me to start looking for houses). But 20 days later I was basically ghosted by my recruiter and I had to escalate to their manager to get a response that I was rejected. They gave me no feedback at all. The interview process asks a LOT of the interviewee and then does not provide anything that could help the person improve next time, so the entire process feels like a complete waste of time. In my case, I was also disrespected by the recruiter. The next time they reached out, I failed the phone screen somehow by someone who sounded 20 years younger than me (which is frustrating when you have already passed these same steps before). I don't respond to Amazon recruiters anymore.

madamelic 5y ago
> I failed the phone screen somehow by someone who sounded 20 years younger than me I am definitely a little pretentious for saying this but I get kinda peeved when I am interviewing for high-level roles and my initial tech screen is by a junior engineer. It's not so much that I think I am too smart to be properly evaluated by them or that they aren't worth being part of a hiring pipeline (they very much should be!), but my opinion is that junior engineers aren't properly tuned for what is and isn't a good engineer and if they are, they shouldn't be a junior engineer. The other side is when I get reached out to interview for a high-level role then get talked down to about how I don't fit their criteria and I basically wasted the executive vice president of external internal engineering's time.
- grog454 5y ago
  > but my opinion is that junior engineers aren't properly tuned for what is and isn't a good engineer and if they are, they shouldn't be a junior engineer. Presumably they aren't instructed to evaluate for that, but instead to identify glaring communication or other interaction issues.
bluedevil2k 5y ago
I went through the exact same thing at a big tech company a few weeks ago. Basically told me I got it, ghosted me for weeks, I had to escalate to higher managers, got told a generic “someone was a better match”. Do these companies think about the reputation hit these kinds of things cause? Amazon is the best example - I’m sure half the people on here would never apply to Amazon because their reputation is beyond repair at this point. Some other companies aren’t far behind. They alienate and disrespect people and those are the people that talk and spread the word.
- jugg1es 5y ago
  From what I've read from managers of recruiters from FAANG companies is: 1) Recruiters at these companies are under a large amount of pressure to bring candidates in. 2) There is only so much time in the day 3) They feel all of their time must be spent on potential hires because of #1 and #2 4) No one likes giving bad news I don't feel like any of these reasons excuse you from being a considerate human being. Ultimately, it happens because recruiters are never rewarded for being considerate. People who fail the interview process are treated like legal liabilities.
  - bluedevil2k 5y ago
    And the ultimate irony…they send me an e-mail a few days later asking me to take a few minutes to give feedback on their interview process.
dmoy 5y ago
> ANY feedback to interviewees when they were rejected This is a lawyer thing Without large societal changes to no longer have the US be crazy litigious, no big company will ever give you actionable feedback about your interview.
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  I’m skeptical. Several times in my career I’ve traced back “it’s a legal restriction” and found that it was not in fact a legal restriction. It was a mutated and distorted version of a legal restriction passed down a game of telephone, in some cases stretching back years.
- mattkrause 5y ago
  I got some from IBM, of all places, so it's not impossible.
- gcheong 5y ago
  Legal counsel will almost always give advice based on the worst case scenario. This isn’t reflective of the likelihood of the worst case scenario so, unless they can point to a strong amount of evidence that shows companies being sued and losing for giving feedback, blindly following such advice is just lazy. I’m more inclined to be grateful towards and have more respect for any company that gives me useful feedback than I would be vindictive.
rendall 5y ago
> "...I failed the phone screen somehow by someone who sounded 20 years younger than me..." Consider, possibly, that the mismatch is explained in this sentence. I will absolutely give high weight to how the receptionist is treated by the candidate.
- jugg1es 5y ago
  If you are implying that I was rude to this person, you are mistaken. I treated the interviewer with the same good nature and respect that I would treat anyone. The difference between someone less than 5 years out from school and someone who has been doing this for decades is that, when you are younger, you believe that software engineering skills have anything to do with what you learned in undergrad. I misspoke on a topic that I hadn't thought about for years and I heard the shift in his tone. When I interview people and they miss something that seems obvious to me, I usually give them another chance and think of a new way to ask the question.
  - rendall 5y ago
    > If you are implying that I was rude to this person, you are mistaken. Nothing rising to the level of implying and certainly not implying rude. Just, "I failed the phone screen somehow by someone who sounded 20 years younger than me" might be suggestive of something to self-examine. But since you're confident that you are fully innocent in the interaction and the rejection is solely due to your interlocutor's naivete and inexperience, then it's no doubt true.
tubs 5y ago
At amazon your interviewer is supposed to be >= the job level you're applying for.

madamelic 5y ago

> I failed the phone screen somehow by someone who sounded 20 years younger than me I am definitely a little pretentious for saying this but I get kinda peeved when I am interviewing for high-level roles and my initial tech screen is by a junior engineer. It's not so much that I think I am too smart to be properly evaluated by them or that they aren't worth being part of a hiring pipeline (they very much should be!), but my opinion is that junior engineers aren't properly tuned for what is and isn't a good engineer and if they are, they shouldn't be a junior engineer. The other side is when I get reached out to interview for a high-level role then get talked down to about how I don't fit their criteria and I basically wasted the executive vice president of external internal engineering's time.

grog454 5y ago
> but my opinion is that junior engineers aren't properly tuned for what is and isn't a good engineer and if they are, they shouldn't be a junior engineer. Presumably they aren't instructed to evaluate for that, but instead to identify glaring communication or other interaction issues.

bluedevil2k 5y ago

I went through the exact same thing at a big tech company a few weeks ago. Basically told me I got it, ghosted me for weeks, I had to escalate to higher managers, got told a generic “someone was a better match”. Do these companies think about the reputation hit these kinds of things cause? Amazon is the best example - I’m sure half the people on here would never apply to Amazon because their reputation is beyond repair at this point. Some other companies aren’t far behind. They alienate and disrespect people and those are the people that talk and spread the word.

jugg1es 5y ago
From what I've read from managers of recruiters from FAANG companies is: 1) Recruiters at these companies are under a large amount of pressure to bring candidates in. 2) There is only so much time in the day 3) They feel all of their time must be spent on potential hires because of #1 and #2 4) No one likes giving bad news I don't feel like any of these reasons excuse you from being a considerate human being. Ultimately, it happens because recruiters are never rewarded for being considerate. People who fail the interview process are treated like legal liabilities.
- bluedevil2k 5y ago
  And the ultimate irony…they send me an e-mail a few days later asking me to take a few minutes to give feedback on their interview process.

dmoy 5y ago

> ANY feedback to interviewees when they were rejected This is a lawyer thing Without large societal changes to no longer have the US be crazy litigious, no big company will ever give you actionable feedback about your interview.

bradleyjg 5y ago
I’m skeptical. Several times in my career I’ve traced back “it’s a legal restriction” and found that it was not in fact a legal restriction. It was a mutated and distorted version of a legal restriction passed down a game of telephone, in some cases stretching back years.
mattkrause 5y ago
I got some from IBM, of all places, so it's not impossible.
gcheong 5y ago
Legal counsel will almost always give advice based on the worst case scenario. This isn’t reflective of the likelihood of the worst case scenario so, unless they can point to a strong amount of evidence that shows companies being sued and losing for giving feedback, blindly following such advice is just lazy. I’m more inclined to be grateful towards and have more respect for any company that gives me useful feedback than I would be vindictive.

rendall 5y ago

> "...I failed the phone screen somehow by someone who sounded 20 years younger than me..." Consider, possibly, that the mismatch is explained in this sentence. I will absolutely give high weight to how the receptionist is treated by the candidate.

jugg1es 5y ago
If you are implying that I was rude to this person, you are mistaken. I treated the interviewer with the same good nature and respect that I would treat anyone. The difference between someone less than 5 years out from school and someone who has been doing this for decades is that, when you are younger, you believe that software engineering skills have anything to do with what you learned in undergrad. I misspoke on a topic that I hadn't thought about for years and I heard the shift in his tone. When I interview people and they miss something that seems obvious to me, I usually give them another chance and think of a new way to ask the question.
- rendall 5y ago
  > If you are implying that I was rude to this person, you are mistaken. Nothing rising to the level of implying and certainly not implying rude. Just, "I failed the phone screen somehow by someone who sounded 20 years younger than me" might be suggestive of something to self-examine. But since you're confident that you are fully innocent in the interaction and the rejection is solely due to your interlocutor's naivete and inexperience, then it's no doubt true.

tubs 5y ago

At amazon your interviewer is supposed to be >= the job level you're applying for.